Sophie Turner files child abduction case against Joe Jonas

[SunshineHello]

It is being reported this morning that Sophie Turner is suing Joe Jonas, demanding that the children be returned to the U.K. (where they had been residing).

It had been agreed the children could spend time with their father in New York, and he is refusing to give their passports to her.

How awful for the children. People often seem to forget when they get divorced that their children aren’t pawns in a game.

Joe Jonas was only on the periphery of my sleb knowledge until recently when he started his campaign to portray himself as dad of the year and Turner as 'hard partying mom'. I've read accounts that say a lot of this is being driven by his own mother.

But the situation really does demonstrate the risks of having kids with someone in another country.

Then they take it to court.

Which is far less onerous a prospect for them compared to most people in this situation.

If he is withholding passports to prevent an abduction because any agreement to change the kids’ habitual country of residence no longer stands, then that is just standard practice.

If he’s withholding them as a way of performing an abduction of his own, it won’t look good in court.

Hopefully the legal process will fast-tracked because it never works out well for the kids if it gets drawn out.

I don’t blame people for not realising the minefield they are potentially walking into when they have children with somebody from another country. I only discovered it by chance when I met many women trapped in the country I was living in. Their choices were live there and see their children. Or go home without them. All of them had presumed motherhood would trump nationhood. They were wrong. And the outcomes ranged from not fab to fucking awful. It made me do a lot of thinking before having a child with DH. I had to be sure that the chances of us splitting were tiny, and should the worst happen I could live with living here as a separated parent.

If this case makes more people aware of the potential pitfalls they would have otherwise never have considered BEFORE having children, that’s good. Because the majority of people don’t have the financial advantages needed to get a swift legal decision and the acrimony over the longer term is corrosive for the smallies in the equation.

Apart from the PR stuff (which both are currently doing) he is doing exactly what MN tells mothers to do if they have a STBX from a different country and they are worried that they will be relocated.

The only difference here is that it is a man that got his 'ducks in a row' first.

I do not know who they are, but this man has been planing this, yes.

The children are American citizens. They were born and raised there. People need to stop being so stupid when they get into relationships like this and bring children into it. You can't just uproot them and move home because it doesn't suit you anymore.

I am interested because I was totally unaware also, of having a DD in a different European country to my own (UK).

You are indeed utterly trapped henceforth for 18 years.

I think he really did her dirty and I really support her.

I do too. But it is weighted in his favour.

@BodegaSushi The children are also British citizens, and they moved to the U.K. in April and are in the midst of buying a house to live in the U.K. permanently apparently.

So there is no clear ‘normal residence’ by the looks of it.

As another poster said, he has truly done her dirty. Taken them to US, filed for divorce without her knowledge, going to try and keep the kids there permanently.

The kids have been with Joe much of the time for the last while, including while has been on tour as Sophie was filming her show Joan in the UK and in Spain.

She probably was partying a lot. She is late twenties and was kid and responsibility free while filming away from her family. I have no idea if there was an alcohol related incident, or alcohol concerns, or some other issue as we have no idea what happened that led to the blow up and divorce.

Their time in the UK also coinccided with her filming schedule (the show started filming in the UK in May) so it can be argued as well the kids were there for work versus a residential move.

It seems they entered into contract to buy a UK home in July.

It seems Joe is more of a hands on dad and home body and Sophie less so. I think we need to normalize this more - the idea that all women need to be some kind of nurturing caring doting mom isn't real life. Lots of moms, just like dads, prioritize other things over their kids, or aren't 'natural' parents, and have to work a lot harder to enjoy parenting. They all still love their kids but this idea that since she is a woman she must be an amazing mother and the partying rumours can't be true because she is a mother...are all pretty sexist.

I think she will have a hard time establishing UK residency. A predivorce plan to settle in the UK in the fall of 2023 won't be enough to establish residency. I am sure that is why she wanted to take them there now - to try to maximize their time in the UK but there is a Florida court order that they aren't to be moved right now.

They are very young. Hopefully the "mother card" will hold sway.

"Done her dirty"

He has done what most posters on MN are advised to do.
Or so you think that is doing the other person "dirty" as well?

You have to serve someone with divorce papers. She knew about it.

There is a lot of tabloid fodder on both sides. We know little about what either has actually said or claimed about the other.

I seem to remember Mel B having a similarly awful experience with her ex. She had to remain in the US. I seem to have these types of cases on my periphery being divorced and knowing what a shit show family courts are. It’s a huge industry built to extract money from both parties, those with the deepest pockets tend to win. And the needs of the child is lost somewhere amongst it all. I suspect hence why JJ got in there quickly with the leaks to the press.

@FrippEnos A mother that did this would be criticised for it too. He’s taken the kids to another country and isn’t letting them leave - why wouldn’t a mother be criticised for this?

@saffronsoup There’s obviously going to be a gap between legally filing for divorce and informing your partner. I think in the U.K. you have three months to do this, for example.

The information about knowing about the divorce / his keeping the passports is part of the case she has filed - it’s being reported in the newspapers.

What a mess!

It does seem like now mum is trying to get back to work after having her children, he's making it very challenging for her to progress in her career with regards to his timing.

The girls are very little and would expect being away from either parent for long periods of time must be hard on the children.

Some celebrities talk about their husbands bringing their children on set for breastfeeding and having a nanny. It doesn't seem like this was what they wanted for their daughters.

If she was just an average Joe (haha!) This would make it incredibly hard for her to finance being separated from her children abroad, could she even work in the US?

Who are these people and why would anyone other than their families care?

@SunshineHello
That country is where they have been living, and have friends and family.
And no a mother wouldn't be criticised for this on MN.

they have even been advised to do it on here. whether across counties or countries.

It seems Joe is more of a hands on dad and home body and Sophie less so.

That is the exact opposite of what both of them have said in various interviews over the last few years.

Obviously there's no reason to believe everything celebrities say in interviews, but there's also no reason to believe this recent bit of reporting around Sophie rather than the interviews either.

How ridiculous. I've never met most people discussed in the news but it doesn't mean I can't talk about them.

None of us are related to most of the people we read about on the relationships board, but we still get invested in their complicated family problems. It's literally human nature to be interested in this stuff and have a view.

Habitual residence holds sway.

Some countries, some of the time, may prioritise smallies being primarily with their mother. But typically it comes down to where are the children habitually resident.

The parent who comes from somewhere else, and wants to go home, has to make a choice. Go home without the children, or stay and have the children (at least some of the time).

Just a heads up for anybody in an international relationship which may result in future children/ existing children living in another country at some point. Do not bank on any “mother card”. Make your plans based on the worst possible outcome (which will depend on the country, visas and right to work can be an issue post split) and be sure you can live with that.

The same applies to anybody considering becoming a trailing spouse.

No matter how you feel that children should be with their mums, and the mums should be allowed to take their children where they can/want to live and work, courts all over the world don’t work like that.

Don’t go anywhere you can’t manage being until your youngest child is 18. Bear in mind that once 18 your children may still want to remain where they grew up and have very little attachment to the place you call home.

I’m not saying don’t do it (I did it, and it’s been great, if a bit nerve racking during the normal ups and downs of a long marriage). But know the frying pan you are climbing into in its fire form BEFORE you make any potentially permanent moves.

Based on what's out so far, it isn't actually clear that they have 'a' country, ie one single one. Which is what seems to make it complex. Do bear in mind as well, these kids are young. The little one is 14 months.

So I think this is going to get verrrrry messy.

I know Sophie's parents, and have mutual friends with Sophie.

I feel really sorry for her; she's given a lot up for the marriage and it obviously hasn't worked. She's clearly very keen to be back in the UK; but wouldn't want to be back here without her children permanently. If she's stuck in the US because they live there, she's in a worst position than she was married.

They bought a house in the uk and were preparing to move there. The girls are dual citizens and have spent a lot of their life in England, they are registered at doctors and dentists here for routine care.

But this is largely tabloid fodder. They entered a contract to buy a home here, but they house flip, just like they did in LA. The children are dual citizens and have access to medical and dental care in both countries; but they've spent more of their life in the US than the UK. They came here this Summer to spend time with her family while she worked, Joe prepared for his tour, and they went on several local date nights.

It can't be argued that they live here, really, but it's also not clear that the ongoing intention was that they'd live there. That's why there is an existing Florida court order, to decide where the children are resident, and both parents seem to have agreed to the children remaining where they are for now and Joe retaining their passports there. I would imagine Sophie has now had legal advice and been advised that it may have been preferable to have the children here and start legal action here instead.

It's a mess, and I hope that it's resolved quickly for the children. They're so small.