XL bully’s to be banned

[Tonightsthenight91]

So what will happen? There are so many breeders of these dogs. I can think of at least 10 breeders near me that I see on Instagram.

what will happen to the ones people already have as pets? And what about pocket bully’s?

I have no idea why people are opposing the ban except it doesn’t go far enough. Every single dog should be chipped and licensed. It should be illegal to own a dog that isn’t chipped or licensed with immediate powers of removal if an animal isn’t . There should be tiered licences so that a maximum weight of say equivalent to a beagle should be the default breeds allowed. Experienced owners with large homes and proven responsible should then be able to apply for a large breed licence for bigger dogs ( rotties, shepherds, wolfhounds etc). All bully breeds should be phased out by no breeding licences being granted. If it’s a criminal offence to purchase or acquire a dog without an official registration/adoption meeting at a vets then at least all decent law abiding people won’t be supplying the criminal trade. And if that animal can’t be sold/ seen in public etc there’s no motivation to breed them. If you need a big house in the country to own a big dog…. Then there won’t be any being dragged up on the local council estate. Status dogs die out. And if this does lead to mass surrenders and euthanasia now, just think of all the future cruelty it will prevent. Long term, the dogs win.

The law needs to go a lot further and existing laws enforced. Every time you feel unsafe or a dog is out of control report it on both the council and government websites. Until the gov believe society wants change we will be characterised as a nation of dog lovers when really it's just most people are silenced.

Yes, our vets say the same.
Very reckless owners - dogs ''found straying'' of XL pit type {Mottled merle, massive pumpkin heads, tiny deep set eyes, often yellow- Dog warden WAS taking them to ''get them off the street'', as they didn't want them passed on via Farcebook
Unchipped.

Not sure if they will be picked up now.

I disagree with that analogy. I think a more accurate comparison is an XL bully is like a fully automatic machine gun. Whereas other breeds of dog might be like a shot gun or a BB gun or a water pistol, in the terms of the amount of damage they could do. The potential for the amount of harm an XL bully can do is why no one needs one and I agree with the ban.

We look at America and the devastation from the guns and it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous to me that people think XL bullies should be kept as pets. A gun on it's own isn't dangerous, it needs someone to pull the trigger, but the capacity for damage means that they shouldn't be available for just anyone to have on a whim.

Surely the dog warden can't leave them to kill people, they need to be pts by armed police if necessary! Not left stray, Jesus Christ how terrible.

It's the bite style of these Pit crosses that creates so much terrible damage.
The ragging side to side where flesh is literally shredded off.

A Dutch Plastic surgeon recently is calling for tighter restriction on XL Pit crosses

If a GSD bites, it's generally a bite and release.

The Mauling that Pits ands their crosses do is horrific.

So much so that first responders have had to have counselling, especially where children are concerned.

Maybe they will leave it to armed police?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-67159064#

Horrible dogs!!

I don't think dogs should be off lead at all in public, except in designated dog parks. It's madness that an animal can just be allowed to run up to strangers and jump on them, oh but it's okay, "they're friendly". Yeah, but I'm not. I see your dog running up to me and I'm kicking it until it goes away! I don't know what your animal is capable of!!

Agree with you completely.
FAR too many large breeds are just left unexercised, untrained and Pits and their crosses are massive escape artists.
One look at Glumtree or other online animal selling sites shows how some people are trying to breed 'nightmare' dogs- Cane Corso XL mix
XL Pit /Malinois - these are going to be dogs that even a very skilled strong trainer could have issues with.

Yer average Joe who wants one is probably the worst person to buy one.
I know of someone who was horribly bullied at school.. as an adult, he went and bought a dog that isn't safe around people or other dogs, because ''He needs to be protected''.
He isn't strong enough to control it.

He brought it to see me once, and it reared up and was taller than me.
I didn't allow it in my house as he didn't have control of it.

It broke free of it's leash and attacked an innocent little puppy being walked by a mother and child.

It was horrible to see.

'Work in a vets and I would say the number one breed that comes in unmicrochipped older than the legal age is the XL bully. Usually acquired off a mate or relative and often have a baby in the pushchair during the consult. And I know this makes me sound judgy and vile, but it doesn’t stop it being true.'

I work in a vets too and i totally agree with this quote and we judge clients who bring in xl bully's because they pretty much fit a stereotype.
I have no idea how the government will sort the neutering of all these dogs , our profession is not superhuman ,we have the same vulnerabilities as everyone else if one of these unpredictable dogs flips whilst in our hands.
And who's going to pay ? this type of owner doesn't financially consider planning neutering costs in the owning of one of these dogs ,vast majority aren't insured as most companies won't touch them with a barge pole.
I don't think much will change other than it'll probably be easier for police to remove /destroy a dog when it attacks as the owner probably won't have followed the legal guidelines so will have no defence.

FFS
why have they used the picture of a Cropped one

I also agree with the ban.

I would however disagree with size being the only criteria for these tiers.

A labrador weighs more than a malinois (on average). And yet I personally would be much more concerned about a malinois than a labrador if both dogs were to have inexperienced owners.

The newfoundland is one of the largest breeds (much larger and heavier than an XL bully btw) but with genuinely gentle temperament.

I am however absolutely in favour of stricter ownership requirements.
And breeders ought to be properly supervised and face serious consequences (not just the destruction of their dogs, which unscrupulous breeders won´t care about anyway).

@oakleaffy yes! Nailed it with the part about the types of people wanting them are the worst people to have them. I have an old school pal from a notorious criminal family who’s friends with other chaps from criminal families and these are always the dogs of choice. All over Facebook! Their lovely killing machines , usually cosied up to a one year old kid sat in a small inflatable pool or sprawled across their couch with said toddler. Give social services the power to remove children from homes with these dogs in. That would make them listen!

I would imagine they will be destroyed.

@PumpkinsAndCoconuts i see your point. But if the basic tier only allows small, lightweight breeds then that’s all the knobheads can have. To ‘level up’ to something Labrador sized or bigger you need to apply, pass a criminal background check, pay upfront for neutering, prove you have stable home and financial means. So it’s less about the dog and more about making it too expensive and difficult for a lowlife to own anything more powerful than a spaniel. Then what’ll happen is the big scary breeds like Corsos, and anything remotely pitty will just cease to exist here because a responsible and qualified dog owner who wants a bigger dog will buy the newfies, st Bernard’s and wolfhounds and such because they aren’t in the market for thug dogs.

Exactly, my upper thigh was scratched and I was left frightened by a dog that ran full pelt and jumped up at me while it’s daft owner just stood there and didn’t apologise or attempt to hold it.

I just froze but if it ever happened again I’m afraid I may have to stick my leg/foot out to try and stop it making contact.

I also see your point.

But a tier based system simply based on weight / size would still mean that there would be less regulations concerning the ownership of malinois than a labrador.
Or a bully xl compared to larger breeds such as newfies, st. bernards etc.

having the same requirements for an Anatolian Shepherd (due to weight) as Bernese mountaindog would seem like genuine madness to me.

They would either be completely inadequate for the Anatolian shepherd. Or unreasonably severe for a Bernese mountain dog...

I do however see how the financial aspect ould be a great deterrent. And anybody wanting to own a large dog needs to be able to comfortably afford it anyway seeing as keeping them is in no way budget friendly. Some sort of entry barrier therefore shouldn´t prevent responsible dog owners.

An exception would have to be made for working dogs (guide dogs, therapy dogs etc.) but apart from that...

I also believe that there are some breeds (cane corsos, Anatolian shepherds etc.) that should not be owned by anyone unless one can demonstrate a genuine need for that kind of working dog. Meaning that there is a necessary task that could not be fulfilled by dogs of other breeds.

@curaçao

Tonightsthenight91
So what will happen? There are so many breeders of these dogs. I can think of at least 10 breeders near me that I see on Instagram.

what will happen to the ones people already have as pets? And what about pocket bully’s?

I would imagine they will be destroyed.

What are you talking about? Do you think they are going to put all the dogs down? Who will man and enforce this?

Don't be ridiculous.

The rules:
Register your dog on the banned breeds list
microchip
neutered
muzzled

Insurance doesn’t pay for spaying and neutering, either
Seems a lot of XL owners use free vet clinics like PDSA.
A chap I know complained that he was charged £5 for vet treatment a few years ago at PDSA.
A £5 note won’t even buy a wormer at a private practice.

The charity spay / neuter services are going to be overrun.

@PumpkinsAndCoconuts couldn’t agree more. Surely the answer is to classify dogs with a coding system. So all the dinky ones are cat 1 and anyone can own (westie, pug, mini poodle, etc) Cat 2 are bigger but dopey and easy to manage so that’s the level up check described ( labs , GSD, etc). Cat 3 - big dogs but that are known to be challenging and have special conditions attached- all the tricky dogs and working breeds that need proper management you need a cat 3 licence and it makes you jump through some hoops to get it. I suppose once the system exists the categories could be expanded until the system works just right.
All the licence fees pay for the admin and the chipping system makes it impossible to dump and abuse animals and you can check they’re insured etc.
DVLA for doggies :)

I see XL bullies all the time on my FB feed and in America where these clips seem to originate from they are normal family pets interacting with all members of the family including babies toddlers .
That tells me something has gone wrong here . It's the issue which no-one seems willing to tackle and that's the breeders and type of people who buy / acquire these dogs .

Coffrey has totally ignored every bit of information from experts that was presented at the DEFRA committee,(which I have a copy of) including the fact the fact that The Breed Specific part of the Dangerous Dogs Act deals specifically with 'dogs bred for fighting' they heard from David Martin, expert vet in court cases and Sam Gaines from the RSPCA that XL Bullies were categorically not bred for fighting' but as companion dogs, which calls into question the validity of adding them to the banned breed list.

The vet progression said that when trainee vets were asked 94% stated they would refuse to euthanise a healthy XL Bully if asked to. And that it was suggested that the amnesty period for registering dogs for exemption must last until 2025. Vets will not be able to accommodate the numbers of dogs needing neutering if a lengthy amnesty isn't granted.

Dr Lawrence Newport (self proclaimed expert ) admitted his "empirical" data was based on eye witness determination of breed plus media reports, this is obviously totally flawed and can't even be considered as valid. He claimed 11 fatalities from XL Bullies yet confirmed fatalities from the breed are just 4, although that is 4 too many. Some of his 'data' was gleaned from police Freedom of Information requests, yet no breed standard has yet been agreed and no police have been trained in identifying an XL Bully so again this data can be dismissed.

Of great concern was the RSPCA stating they have pulled away from assisting government in defining breed criteria for the XL Bully, they state that the direction the government are taking will encompass many similar looking dogs of other breeds.

They heard about the huge strain which will be placed on the police, courts customs, vets and rescue staff when the ban comes in. It will have a massive negative impact on all areas which are already under strain

At the the time of the committee the petition asking for reconsideration of the ban had over 500k signatures, compared to just 28k on the opposing petition supporting the ban.

As yet representatives of top legal firms who specialise in animal law, such as Wheldon Law have yet to revise their guidance to bully owners but that should be soon, but James McNally, who is also known as The Dog Bite Solicitor has not changed his stance and is still saying his firm deal with 400 dog bite cases a day and not one from an XL.

These things are still attacking people. The government should inform the public that they have until a certain date this month to surrender these things otherwise they'll be fined £1000. Any dog surrendered should be euthanised by a vet or shot by a police marksman if it's too dangerous for the vet to approach.

I do not agree. How can the ban be implemented if existing animaks are allowed to remain.They akl need ti be gone!

Yep