A message from an ‘ugly’ woman

[Over40Overdating]

I am, by all conventional standards, an ‘ugly’ woman.

I am not, and never have been, beautiful. Never pretty or attractive. On a good day with some good light, I could possibly pass for striking.

This awareness has crippled my self esteem for years, to the point of developing a phobia of mirrors and pictures. I have no pictures of me from 14 until recently.

Tonight, on my way home from work, 2 young women got on the trains opposite me and started discussing and laughing loudly about how deformed and ugly my face I was.

I didn’t challenge them because I am middle aged and knackered and didn’t fancy my chances with two very loud, much younger women, but I realised I don’t actually care.

For so long, someone calling me ugly or unattractive to my face would have been my worst nightmare but it happened and instead of the world ending, I’ve realised I no longer care about my face or how it’s viewed.

I don’t know if it’s age, peri menopause, life experience or being too tired to care, but for the first time in my life I feel like I am more than the sum of my facial features and very much like who I am regardless of what I look like.

I feel free. Like a giant weight I have been dragging around my whole life has suddenly dropped off. I wish I’d had this realisation decades ago! I wish I could tell younger me my wonky face doesn’t actually matter in the grand scheme of things. I have a life I am proud to have created and many things to celebrate and not a single one of them relied on me having a conventional looking face.

So fellow ‘ugly’ women, please come join me on a ‘DGAF’ thread.

Reassurance about your face ‘not being that bad really’ is banned.

Celebration of all the many other things you are than your physical appearance encouraged!

strangers absolutely will laugh about your looks. No, it doesn't stop in high school. Full adults will point, laugh and mock you.

I'm so sorry to hear that. I genuinely didn't appreciate that adults could be intentionally that cruel.

@EarringsandLipstick to me, that's far less disturbing/interesting than the moral weight people seem to place on looks. When my skin is clear, and I'm "pretty", and people treat me like I'm a better, more trustworthy, more likeable human being. Not my friends, obviously, but in everyday interactions. Its really enlightening.
Maybe this is why I became a sociologist.

Agreed people should be taught this in school and also informed that the prettiest teens might not be so as they age but none of it matters!! Hugs op- yay to starting to get pictures taken again!

Totally agree with this - very weird facile and counterproductive focus on "beauty" in society that's making all plastic surgery customers look the same with those puffy cheeks and frozen expressions.
The whole fascination with Lucy Letby is cos she's a woman so assumed to be caring, but also cos she's blonde and pretty.
News reports focus so disproportionately on victims who are photogenic- shamefully loads of racism too in which victims they choose to focus on.
Males as well as females though - I remember a handsome blonde boy was murdered in typical gang related violence and the media went on and on for days about his life his potential etc and I just cried inside for all the victims of other races/physical appearances who just get ignored.

Vile individuals. How dare they.

Really interested in this thread as I was watching the new series of The Morning Show last night and was morbidly fascinated by what Jennifer Aniston has done to her face (fillers/surgery/who knows what.) Absolutely no judgement (anyone can do whatever they want to their own body) or hating, but it looked - to my eyes - so…strange. And I do wonder if that - along with the endless filters on social media - is now what ‘society’ is expecting of women over forty (or thirty). Which in no way excuses stupid people from making insulting comments. It’s just, as has been said, sad.

I've had grown men comment on my ugliness to my face, laughing together at such a dog of a woman, "urgh she's so ugly!" etc over the years. When I was 14 I even had a pair of semi-pro rugby players that I was quietly queueing up for their autographs mention it "Shame they can't all look like her" (about the beautiful young blonde who had been in front of me in the queue who they'd been laughing and joking and flirting with. Just stayed silently smirking at me. Crushed my teenage-self). Now such comments honestly don't affect me anymore, but crushed me utterly as a kid.

Love your declaration.

I am going to admit that I have a conventionally attractive face. In my life, I have always been seen as good looking.

I think what you said about those women not being cunts and actually defending their own position is very insightful. (Although they are still awful).

I come from a strange family where we were very much given roles. When I got to teens I stopped being the middle one or the naughty one suddenly I was The Pretty One.

I actually have very low self esteem (I know I keep declaring I’m attractive but bear with me!).
I am a huge people pleaser and I soon understood that a pretty people pleaser is valued.
I don’t think many people are gorgeous without some make up or preening.
So for decades I played to my ‘strengths’. Life revolves around how you look and the strange situation of comments from strangers both being needed but also despised.

No solid foundation of worth from achievements or ambition or actually me.
Extremely shy, if I went to restaurants would never ever go to toilet etc as was too self conscious to make the walk as didn’t want to be looked at!!

My point is I absolutely applaud your declaration, I am coming to it myself.
Having realised only false self worth is in physical looks.
Other people’s approval is a very cheap prize won with a deep self cost.
The absolute bullshit we are fed is very costly for all women, bit by bit dropping my make up mask and nudging onward to not giving a fuck either.

Thank you for posting, good to read and think about.

Don't be upset by it, as a pp said they are ugly on the inside. I'm no beauty, but I scrub up well. Does anyone need ti be told this? No. How does it help, the person can't change, so what's the point? And thus if we question the motivation we realise that no good can come of this, so it's only said with nasty intentions. And that says more about them than it does you.

Solidarity, OP. These things have happened to me too. Not giving a monkeys is very empowering. I am no longer tied to trying to 'make the best' of my features. It took me 50 odd years though.

@Over40Overdating

I’ve never sat on a train and thought - that person looks ugly - although I might think their behaviour is ugly. Or indeed in my day to day life have I never thought ‘that person looks ugly’. I really contest what you are saying. Everyone is different and unique, and just the pure amazingness of life, being alive, being able to think, touch, feel is beautiful. All people are beautiful, they just ‘do’ ugly things. Ugliness came from the behaviour of the two ladies who sat on the train, not you.

It has been on my mind lately how the world has become extremely looksist and how I don’t see any feminist narratives that challenge this. A lot of young women seem really insecure about their looks and cover themselves in makeup, wigs/hair extensions. It is as though influencer culture has convinced us of the reality of perfect bodies and faces.

in truth most people are plain. I have never been into makeup but I remember being shocked to realisethat a lot of “pretty” people look very different without it.

As a child I was constantly told that I was ugly but as an adult I am told that I am beautiful but I just can’t see it. People say I am photogenic but I can’t see that either. And, you know what? I DGAF. I am glad I can’t see it because I have a really good brain, I am extremely kind and patient and compassionate. I am talented in various ways and feel incredibly blessed to have been able to use all this to build a great life for myself.

I am joining you on your crusade which is long overdue.

I've recently come to a similar place of DGAF. I've come to the conclusion that this is my face, and there's nothing to be done for it. I've also realised that it doesn't actually matter to me. It doesn't affect my ability to do my job, or raise my children, or enjoy my friendships/family (the things that are important to me). Having dated casually a little since separating from my DC's Dad, I've come to the conclusion that I have ZERO interest in dating, so I don't need anyone to find me attractive.

There are now photos of me with my DC which I enjoy looking at and remembering the occasions. I don't start the day feeling low because I've spent ten minutes up close and personal in the mirror putting make up on, and still don't look any better. No more fucks to give about my face, and I'm much happier for it.

I took have always been ugly. I had a skeletal defect and had an operation to break my jaw to correct it but beauty wise not much changed.

Two comments sit in my brain: at 14 being asked "what's it like to be as ugly as you are?" And by the surgeon that was due to complete my surgery "you don't need to be attractive, you're married now" (he didn't do my surgery after I logged a complaint).

But, I do notice is how an animated face can be beautiful even if the features themselves aren't.

Generally I don't care but still avoid photos and only have one mirror which I never look in.

I hate that people think they can crush someone else on the basis of their physical appearance.
And what I hate more is what I find attractive, you may not and likewise.
How can we call ourselves ugly or beautiful, if we are both, just to different people?

No word of a lie, on the same walk I was given abuse for my appearance and on the way back cat called.

I think not giving a fuck is the way forward but I read these threads and some women will give examples of their unattractiveness and will list adorable features, so it is sad to read.

I suppose we can console ourselves remembering that other people's opinions of us are their business and theirs alone, what we think of ourselves is what's important we don't owe anyone pretty.

@Over40Overdating the women I find the most beautiful are "striking" as opposed to anything else. I'm sorry you experienced such horrible people, you are obviously a very decent person. You didn't deserve what you experienced. 💔

Who are these people that comment negatively on a stranger’s appearance? Just appalling. No decent person would ever do such a thing.

Lwrenagain I think not giving a fuck is the way forward

I agree.
I have never been pretty, and I have a geeky personality too. boys kept a wide berth at school because I was the strange girl who excelled at maths and science.

Now many decades later I am comfortable with who I am. I treat myself with love and compassion.

I don't need the external validation of strangers to judge my worth.

I am at peace with my appearance, and thanks to learning how to love myself I have a lean, fit, strong body, shining hair and clear skin.

I have come to be proud of my quirky nature, those close to me love it too.
I steer away from toxic people.
I take no bullshit, I have cultivated my inner strength and have the courage of a lion.

I deserve - we all deserve- to take up space in this universe. No matter how we look, the abilities we have or who we are.

I hope to get to NGAF. However, I will always live with the regret of GAF for many years.

I don’t think I’ve ever looked at anyone and thought they were ugly.

There is something attractive in everyone, whether it’s their skin, hair, body shape, eyes etc.

The only time I’ve found ugliness is after I’ve got to know someone too well and realised they are a bad person. And then no matter how outwardly beautiful they are, all my mind can register is how bad they are as a person.

As a PP I don't notice a pretty face anymore, male or female. They're all so vain it puts me off.

I appreciate and find myself responding to beauty which may be an intense pair of eyes, a quirky smile, a skin tone, teeth which are white or a bit wonky and lovely, the way someone speaks. I'm very interested in people with grey hair at the moment, I find grey hair attractive in both men and women. I think it's the sign of empowerment, embracing the wisdom of later years.

I went into a salon recently and all the hairdressers were fake tanned, big lips, extension hair, long eye lashes. I got several up and down looks. Felt like swimming in the wrong pool. They may have been 'pretty' but I find them the opposite of beautiful. It was like they were hiding themselves somehow which puts me ill at ease.

Embracing what you are is a wonderful moment OP. I'm pleased for you. I have a conventionally 'ugly' wonderful friend who has managed this her whole life. She's had many conventionally handsome partners, shouted back and shrugged off the worst comments from strangers, now raising three kids alone, own home, very successful unconventional career (male dominated ). I'm in awe at her strength.

It's a lovely sentiment but unfortunately isn't true. A lot of people who look great do get treated better. They end up with more confidence a lot of the time because they have more positive interactions.

OP well done for turning it around. It's the harder path but it sounds like you have reached a lovely equilibrium. I'm sorry you had to experience those women being so unkind.

I was classically beautiful when younger, mum and grandma were both models in their youth and I was miserable. Yes, as others have said it has perks, I got jobs easily and got served first etc but the unpleasant men and the constant inappropriate touching and flirting for a shy girl/woman made my life a misery.
I'm 50 and I could still be 'good for my age' if I wanted. I don't, I am finally happy in my own skin, my hair is grey and frizzy, my face is round and I'm 4 stone over weight and fuck me do I feel free!

The women in your train WERE bitches, OP. We all live in a world with pressures, but no decent person would do what they did, I’m honestly shocked. I’m also really angry that no-one else spoke up and told them to stop behaving so appallingly.

You sound brilliant btw. Fancy a coffee?? 😁

More generally, I need to be more DGAF in life. I spend far too much time worrying about what other people are thinking/doing. It’s a really hard habit to break.

I've been called 'ugly' and similar by strangers all my life - not so much now I'm middle-aged as men, particularly, don't register middle-aged women as a group that 'should' be attractive. Primarily men who've been responsible - as if, on seeing me, a stranger, they must instantly make it known that I am sexually beneath them.

It still hurts - it feels unfair and that is hard to shake off.

By your teacher??

When was that?