Page 19 | 9/11 - what happened to the planes?

myyve · 2023-09-12T10:48:35+00:00

Thinking on from that awful day after the anniversary yesterday, one thought has come to mind. What happened to the planes and those onboard, once they were flown into the twin towers? I know this probably does sound silly and I'm so sorry if it comes across as ignorant, but I truly do not know, and the internet doesn't mention anything, either.. Did they come to a crash landing afterwards? Or did they continue flying? What actually happened to the plane and those poor souls on board?

GoryBory · 12/09/2023 15:30

crumblingschools · 12/09/2023 15:27

My son has just started an engineering degree, he has not done engineering before

Good for him.

I would assume most uni courses have content that people are unfamiliar with.

Its great to learn new things.

ScottishIceCream · 12/09/2023 15:34

FindPirate · 12/09/2023 15:22

@myyve

OK, some top tips:

If you strongly suspect something is an ignorant question, don't ask. Look it up. If you can't find an answer anywhere on the entire of the internet, that's probably because the question is too stupid, or too obvious.
Research - social media is not research. Youtube is not research, unless you are using it for footage of something actually happening (which you could have done in this case, to be fair), or unless it's a reputable source (recognised expert on the subject, first hand narrative, or presenting properly researched material). Familiarise yourself with the uni library, and with any websites that collate studies/academic articles for your subject. Look at the sources for everything you read. If there aren't any, or they're crap, then the thing you are reading has not been validated.
Common sense - have a look at logic exercises, or reasoning activities. Try and do a small amount every day. Brain training to think in a more practical way is helpful for everyone, but would be really helpful if you want to be an engineer.

People can always ask questions, it's the way we all find things out. And just because you think a question is ignorant doesn't mean everyone else will.

housethatbuiltme · 12/09/2023 15:36

Maatandosiris · 12/09/2023 14:27

I think it’s always very difficult to decide what’s right and wrong in wars. At the time I guess many people say this as finally drawing an end to a war which had killed millions. Now looking back it looks terrible.

it’s a bit like the dam buster raids for years have been touted as the acts of heroes. Yet not long ago Russia blew up a dam in Ukraine and it was seen as despicable.

what I do find terrible are the deals done with war criminals after the end of WWII to obtain information obtained through the unspeakable torture of men women and children.

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I have always abhorred the damn busters too... inexcusable terrorism.

And the Wilhelm Gustav torpedoing (how the fuck they got blowing up 10,000+ child refugees as an 'act of war' god only knows).

If the military choose to fight, shoot and kill each other after signing on to do that over land and titles whatever but it should not ever kill innocent civilians, once it does its not a 'war' its 'terrorism'.

kittensinthekitchen · 12/09/2023 15:37

How old are you OP? A previous thread puts you at 26?

GoryBory · 12/09/2023 15:38

Elliania · 12/09/2023 15:21

The 4th plane where the passengers overpowered the terrorists most certainly did not land safely. The terrorists realised that they were not going to make it to their intended target so they deliberately crashed the plane into a field in Pennsylvania. There's a memorial there to the passengers and airline staff who lost their lives there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_93

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Thank you for that!

I actually remember that when it was happening, so I don’t know why I even wrote it!
Maybe I just re-wrote it in my brain or something.

Thanks for the link.

JemimaTiggywinkles · 12/09/2023 15:38

FindPirate · 12/09/2023 15:22

@myyve

OK, some top tips:

If you strongly suspect something is an ignorant question, don't ask. Look it up. If you can't find an answer anywhere on the entire of the internet, that's probably because the question is too stupid, or too obvious.
Research - social media is not research. Youtube is not research, unless you are using it for footage of something actually happening (which you could have done in this case, to be fair), or unless it's a reputable source (recognised expert on the subject, first hand narrative, or presenting properly researched material). Familiarise yourself with the uni library, and with any websites that collate studies/academic articles for your subject. Look at the sources for everything you read. If there aren't any, or they're crap, then the thing you are reading has not been validated.
Common sense - have a look at logic exercises, or reasoning activities. Try and do a small amount every day. Brain training to think in a more practical way is helpful for everyone, but would be really helpful if you want to be an engineer.

This is probably the worst advice I've ever seen for an engineering student!

Firstly - ALWAYS ask. Better to ask a stupid question that to make a stupid mistake.

Secondly - if you haven't a clue where to start then ask someone. You need some knowledge on a topic before you can properly judge whether a particular source is reputable / credible. Trying to wade through all of the information (particularly something like this) without having some background knowledge will take far longer and be less effective than if you ask someone to give you some pointers.

Thirdly - common sense is a misnomer and generic "brain training" activities are a complete waste of time. Engineering courses are specifically designed to give students the knowledge and skills they need. Engineering isn't some magical "way of thinking". People get better at it through practice - much like almost every other skill.

ScottishIceCream · 12/09/2023 15:38

JemimaTiggywinkles · 12/09/2023 15:28

OP, ignore people who think they know your motives better than you do - they're wrong (and arrogant).

I haven't read all of the posts (too many dickheads to wade through) but it is worth considering the design of different vehicles. Road vehicles, such as cars, are specifically designed to hold up well during head-on collisions because those sorts of collisions are really quite common on roads. However, for aircraft head-on collisions are very rare (at high speeds particularly) so they aren't designed to hold up well in those cases.

For the "just google it" dickheads - I specifically refuse to google terror attacks because I don't want to see video footage of people being murdered. The same info can usually be found via a different means (such as asking on a general forum to get an idea of what websites might give accurate info). There are plenty of people who would think choosing to watch the video for no good reason is pretty disgusting in itself.

Finally, the "its history how can you not know?!" group - I'd bet good money there is plenty of history that you don't know either. Aside from school (where recent history often isn't taught because it takes time to get things on the curriculum) people tend to follow their interests. You may personally have been interested in 9/11 and its political impact, but others may be more interested in British colonisation and that ongoing impact.

Your second paragraph is really interesting, and had OP not asked their question, something I wouldn't really have given that much thought too.

That's the great thing about discussion, you can learn new things about all sorts of subjects quite randomly and by accident.

Reachingreach · 12/09/2023 15:39

FindPirate · 12/09/2023 15:22

@myyve

OK, some top tips:

If you strongly suspect something is an ignorant question, don't ask. Look it up. If you can't find an answer anywhere on the entire of the internet, that's probably because the question is too stupid, or too obvious.
Research - social media is not research. Youtube is not research, unless you are using it for footage of something actually happening (which you could have done in this case, to be fair), or unless it's a reputable source (recognised expert on the subject, first hand narrative, or presenting properly researched material). Familiarise yourself with the uni library, and with any websites that collate studies/academic articles for your subject. Look at the sources for everything you read. If there aren't any, or they're crap, then the thing you are reading has not been validated.
Common sense - have a look at logic exercises, or reasoning activities. Try and do a small amount every day. Brain training to think in a more practical way is helpful for everyone, but would be really helpful if you want to be an engineer.

What awful 'advice'.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 12/09/2023 15:40

As other posters have also mentioned, it's hard to envision something of that size not just gliding through and out of the other end of the building

No. No it isn't hard at all. The planes were full of aviation fuel and they hit a solid object at speed. The intention was to cause destruction and death, that's why the hijackers did what they did. And that's why the planes exploded and burst into flames, as they tend to do when objects full of aviation fuel hit solid objects.

'Glided through.' FGS.

IrresponsiblyCertainAboutSexualDimorphism · 12/09/2023 15:41

MissConductUS · 12/09/2023 15:20

This is what happened to the aircraft that hit the WTC. Parts of the plane can be seen at the 9/11 museum. I'm a New Yorker and I saw the second plane hit from about a mile away.

https://exhibitions.nysm.nysed.gov/wtc/recovery/aircraft.html

When the two Boeing 767s crashed into the World Trade Center, fireballs, wreckage, and plane pieces ejected from the towers. Large pieces of the planes, such as an engine and landing gear, were discovered blocks from Ground Zero.
Weeks later, police detectives, FBI agents, and firefighters continued to search through the wreckage for human remains, personal objects, and any clues relating to the terrorists. They desperately wanted to locate the planes’ flight recorders. Each plane had two "black boxes"—a cockpit voice recorder and a flight data recorder—located near the tail. Recovery of any black box would have provided investigators with information on the final minutes of the doomed planes. Posters inside the tents offered various pictures of what the flight recorders could look like if they survived. After almost a year of combing through Ground Zero and the Fresh Kills facility, the staff found some plane pieces, but none of the black boxes. An expert on aircraft construction was on site to help with the identification of the plane parts.

That’s really interesting, thank you. So the sneery posters who insisted it was obvious that the planes vaporised entirely on impact were wrong.

SurferRona · 12/09/2023 15:43

myyve · 12/09/2023 12:11

This isn't the first place I've looked. I have researched as much as I possibly can, and have seen some of the footage and articles. There is little information as to if the planes pass through the other side so I did assume not, however I wanted to check. That is all I meant by this post.

Uh huh….ok….

so what is your assignment? And what course is it for?

MNHQ

PipMumsnet · 12/09/2023 15:44

Hello, sadly we have been receiving a lot of reports about this thread and would like to remind everyone that troll hunting and personal attacks go against our Talk guidelines.

As we said before " We would advise those who can't read threads on Mumsnet without contravening our guidelines to use the 'hide' facility or click off."

And we would like to to note that we have no reason to believe that the OP is anything but genuine.

MNHQ

Original poster

myyve · 12/09/2023 15:46

@SurferRona I have explained all within this thread.

OP posts:

MonicaPluto · 12/09/2023 15:46

FindPirate · 12/09/2023 15:22

@myyve

OK, some top tips:

If you strongly suspect something is an ignorant question, don't ask. Look it up. If you can't find an answer anywhere on the entire of the internet, that's probably because the question is too stupid, or too obvious.
Research - social media is not research. Youtube is not research, unless you are using it for footage of something actually happening (which you could have done in this case, to be fair), or unless it's a reputable source (recognised expert on the subject, first hand narrative, or presenting properly researched material). Familiarise yourself with the uni library, and with any websites that collate studies/academic articles for your subject. Look at the sources for everything you read. If there aren't any, or they're crap, then the thing you are reading has not been validated.
Common sense - have a look at logic exercises, or reasoning activities. Try and do a small amount every day. Brain training to think in a more practical way is helpful for everyone, but would be really helpful if you want to be an engineer.

I can never understand the people who use 'ignorant' as a criticism but don't like people asking questions to educate themselves.

Plenty of people are happy to answer the question, maybe not plenty on here in the snake pit but in real life or elsewhere on the internet.

It can be.
Some of my early college assignments involved using social media, online newspapers, youtube etc. They didn't involve using academic articles at all.

Could you be any more condescending?

Miyagi99 · 12/09/2023 15:46

Ponderingwindow · 12/09/2023 12:18

I actually was going to ask op her age. I see she has provided that by inference. This thread makes much more sense with that context.

those of us who watched the second tower in real time and then watched the replays over and over and over again are going to have a very different perspective.

But that same footage is still easily found online and this woman is in her early 20s.

weirdoboelady · 12/09/2023 15:46

Spirallingdownwards · 12/09/2023 15:13

Because I assumed it would be about whether wreckage had been found and examined and not the ridiculous and disrespectful question it turned out to be.

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Isn't that part of the question though? It seems totally logical to me to assume and ask the following

the planes were travelling at speed and so debris would continue to travel
what happened to this debris and what percentage 'exploded'
what sort of secondary debris was there after the explosion

To insult the OP by suggesting that they know nothing about engineering by asking their question is COMPLETELY unreasonable and very undermining. They seem to me to know something about physics and the conservation of matter/energy that has passed you by!

PenLidsOnTheFloor · 12/09/2023 15:47

SurferRona · 12/09/2023 15:43

Uh huh….ok….

so what is your assignment? And what course is it for?

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It’s all in the thread. You can click to read just the OPs posts if that’s easier.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 12/09/2023 15:48

JemimaTiggywinkles · 12/09/2023 15:38

This is probably the worst advice I've ever seen for an engineering student!

Firstly - ALWAYS ask. Better to ask a stupid question that to make a stupid mistake.

Secondly - if you haven't a clue where to start then ask someone. You need some knowledge on a topic before you can properly judge whether a particular source is reputable / credible. Trying to wade through all of the information (particularly something like this) without having some background knowledge will take far longer and be less effective than if you ask someone to give you some pointers.

Thirdly - common sense is a misnomer and generic "brain training" activities are a complete waste of time. Engineering courses are specifically designed to give students the knowledge and skills they need. Engineering isn't some magical "way of thinking". People get better at it through practice - much like almost every other skill.

Show quote history

Your third point wins the thread. "Common" means "what everyone has" so there can be no such thing as "common sense" because some people don't have the attributes described as "common sense". If we don't all have it, it's not "common".

SurferRona · 12/09/2023 15:48

myyve · 12/09/2023 14:29

I haven't asked it again. I am researching for my engineering course. I feel extremely vulnerable at the moment on this thread.

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Maybe because the fact you’re doing engineering is….extremely worrying. What level? And how have you been asked to complete an assignment, but not yet taught research skills? 😧

Maatandosiris · 12/09/2023 15:49

housethatbuiltme · 12/09/2023 15:36

I have always abhorred the damn busters too... inexcusable terrorism.

And the Wilhelm Gustav torpedoing (how the fuck they got blowing up 10,000+ child refugees as an 'act of war' god only knows).

If the military choose to fight, shoot and kill each other after signing on to do that over land and titles whatever but it should not ever kill innocent civilians, once it does its not a 'war' its 'terrorism'.

Show quote history

Yeah, I mean why on earth did the luftwaffe bomb civilians? If you look at what the Japanese did in unit 731 to men women and children. All sides behave despicably in war some more than others though Why did the Germans has so many children and men anc women?

MrsCarson · 12/09/2023 15:50

I watched it live on the Today show as it was happening, horrendous, one plane did seem to go out the other side but it didn't fly on it was wrecked and I think it was just a fireball that blew out the side of the building.
The one in the pentagon was in pieces but recognisable as was the one in a field in Pennsylvania.

tigger1001 · 12/09/2023 15:51

LadyWhineglass · 12/09/2023 11:51

They all burnt to death in a massive fireball.

A horrific death.

The poor families. I think you should ask for this thread to be deleted. It’s in pretty poor taste.

That seems like an overreaction to this thread.

Op was just asking a question. Given the number of films, books and documentaries there are on 9/11 I think the question is fine to stand.

SOBplus · 12/09/2023 15:53

At least OP was curious and asked instead of just going to some conspiracy nut information page and being told there never was a plane; well done OP you did the exact right thing, asked to learn something and those who think its too basic/outrageous/etc are the ones in the wrong.

REP22 · 12/09/2023 15:53

This reply has been deleted

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

That plane did not land safely. It crashed in a field in Shanksville, Pennsylvania, as the passengers were trying to wrest control of the plane back from the hijackers. All aboard died. No-one on the ground lost their lives. It was United Airlines Flight 93 and a film, "United 93", was made by Paul Greengrass about it.

Hanlonsamazer · 12/09/2023 15:53

OP, don’t let it knock your confidence. There’s much to say about the pack mentality on this thread and also the understandable surprise at the question… what you could do is perhaps use it as a way to develop your early research methods? I know Wikipedia is derided on here but it’s actually incredibly well moderated and referenced. Also YouTube has some excellent, dependable resources, and there are a number of documentaries still available on TV on 9/11.

use it as a learning point and don’t give up.