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Original poster

Forced to install heat pumps

175 replies

forcedtogetheatpumps · 08/09/2023 19:07

Yesterday, there was an article in the DM (yes, I know) about a Bill currently going through Parliament which basically says that home owners and LLs are going to be forced to install heat pumps otherwise they'll be fined or imprisoned.

How are people going to afford this?

OP posts:
EasternStandard · 09/09/2023 17:30

Perfect28 · 09/09/2023 16:04

Net zero is a GOOD thing people, and needs to happen much quicker than 2050 when we will all be fried.

How much better are heat pumps?

Parsley1234 · 09/09/2023 18:09

It’s completely mad the infrastructure isn’t there how can this even be seen as reasonable
what does happen to people who own their own homes ? Do people really think older houses will be obsolete in value

Original poster
forcedtogetheatpumps · 09/09/2023 18:16

Perfect28 · 09/09/2023 17:23

OP do you propose we all just cross our fingers and wish? Or do you actually just deny climate change entirely and that's why you don't give a flying f?

That's just being silly. I'm well aware that it's happening and why, I'm just being a realist. Yes things have to change, it's just the way it's happening that worries me and also the side effects of these changes which will probably benefit big business - such as the buying up of properties to rent because LLs have had to sell them.

OP posts:

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Home improvement
Original poster
forcedtogetheatpumps · 09/09/2023 18:18

Perhaps those homeowners who can't afford all the upgrades to their heating systems can be offered a pittance market value for their home then have it rented back to them.

OP posts:
PhilMitchellsleatherbomber · 09/09/2023 18:22

forcedtogetheatpumps · 09/09/2023 18:18

Perhaps those homeowners who can't afford all the upgrades to their heating systems can be offered a pittance market value for their home then have it rented back to them.

Yep this is what will happen I expect, there won’t be the small time landlords anymore, the big conglomerates will buy the houses and rent them back.

Original poster
forcedtogetheatpumps · 09/09/2023 18:24

Heat pumps rely on electricity to run them and can be expensive from what I've read - not on the DM. Some people are even having them uninstalled. They also need a secondary source of heat in the winter. Draughty - aka ventilated houses - are no good, the houses need to be sealed up. That's healthy ?

OP posts:
Original poster
forcedtogetheatpumps · 09/09/2023 18:28

PhilMitchellsleatherbomber · 09/09/2023 18:22

Yep this is what will happen I expect, there won’t be the small time landlords anymore, the big conglomerates will buy the houses and rent them back.

Show quote history

Yes. Together with us having to rent our cars because most of us can't afford £30k for an electric car. I don't see how prices will come down either as materials for the batteries aren't exactly plentiful.

Everything will need to be hired/rented/leased to ensure an ongoing income for businesses.

You will own nothing......

OP posts:
Original poster
forcedtogetheatpumps · 09/09/2023 18:33

You used to be able to buy music from Google. Now they've stopped this and you have to subscribe to a streaming service. Some people are even going back to buying vinyl and CDs.

If you can't sell a house because it hasn't been 'upgraded' what do you do?

OP posts:
Parsley1234 · 09/09/2023 19:23

I find this terrifying I wonder how realistic my fears are I don’t think the statement you will own nothing and be happy is correct I think it’s been proved to have been taken out of context. Cars are leased now hence the new cars everywhere as a landlord I can see how the changes are being implemented but not on holiday let’s or owner homes only on BTLs which are being bought up by large organisations. Follow the money

NameChangedToProtectInnocentSmoothie · 10/09/2023 12:50

Re. Heat pumps only working if the property is sealed - isn't that one of the big causes of damp? What about drying clothes inside? Forced to use the high-energy solution of a tumble dryer?

BocolateChiscuits · 10/09/2023 13:05

I know this'll be ignored, but just to ally fears:

  • I have a heat pump and an ordinary home. It is not "sealed", with underfloor heating, and there isn't a secondary heating system.

  • It costs about the same to run as my previous gas boiler. It uses about a third less energy in terms of kWh, but electricity costs about 3 times gas - so it's basically even.

  • I didn't have to rip out the heating system, we upgraded single radiators to double and the couple of doubles to triples.

  • We have a second-hand electric car. It didn't cost anything like 30k! - it really isn't necessary to spend that much - you can see that on autotrader or something.

  • Hot water is lovely, radiators are toasty, car runs fine. I got an induction hob and got the gas disconnected so we no longer have a gas bill (no standing charge) and we no longer buy petrol. We pay £144 a month on electricity, and I donated the bill rebates we got over winter to the local food bank. Life in the net zero world is fine - don't panic!

megletthesecond · 10/09/2023 13:22

Increasing radiator sizes will be hard in small homes. There's no space in my kitchen/diner, the bathroom or DD's room to install a larger radiator. There's units or doors in the way.

AlaskaThunderfuckHiiiiiiiii · 10/09/2023 13:24

At the end of the day what works for one person/house/transport isn’t going to work for everyone and they need to realise this

EasternStandard · 10/09/2023 13:24

BocolateChiscuits · 10/09/2023 13:05

I know this'll be ignored, but just to ally fears:

  • I have a heat pump and an ordinary home. It is not "sealed", with underfloor heating, and there isn't a secondary heating system.

  • It costs about the same to run as my previous gas boiler. It uses about a third less energy in terms of kWh, but electricity costs about 3 times gas - so it's basically even.

  • I didn't have to rip out the heating system, we upgraded single radiators to double and the couple of doubles to triples.

  • We have a second-hand electric car. It didn't cost anything like 30k! - it really isn't necessary to spend that much - you can see that on autotrader or something.

  • Hot water is lovely, radiators are toasty, car runs fine. I got an induction hob and got the gas disconnected so we no longer have a gas bill (no standing charge) and we no longer buy petrol. We pay £144 a month on electricity, and I donated the bill rebates we got over winter to the local food bank. Life in the net zero world is fine - don't panic!

How much did the heat pump plus changes cost?

Simonjt · 10/09/2023 14:06

forcedtogetheatpumps · 09/09/2023 18:24

Heat pumps rely on electricity to run them and can be expensive from what I've read - not on the DM. Some people are even having them uninstalled. They also need a secondary source of heat in the winter. Draughty - aka ventilated houses - are no good, the houses need to be sealed up. That's healthy ?

(I have no idea if heat pumps in Sweden are different).

We have one, our home isn’t sealed, we have air bricks, it’s a 1920’s traditional house, our house isn’t damp, you can dry washing inside (our tenants did for the last eight years). No damp, nice and warm in winter and quick to heat if you do leave the house to get cold, which has happened a lot in the last 12 months as it has been empty. We have no secondary heating source as we don’t need it, the bills (going by the previous tenant) will actually be cheaper than what we were paying in the UK, which is saying something as electricity is more expensive here.

AlisonDonut · 10/09/2023 14:15

BocolateChiscuits · 10/09/2023 13:05

I know this'll be ignored, but just to ally fears:

  • I have a heat pump and an ordinary home. It is not "sealed", with underfloor heating, and there isn't a secondary heating system.

  • It costs about the same to run as my previous gas boiler. It uses about a third less energy in terms of kWh, but electricity costs about 3 times gas - so it's basically even.

  • I didn't have to rip out the heating system, we upgraded single radiators to double and the couple of doubles to triples.

  • We have a second-hand electric car. It didn't cost anything like 30k! - it really isn't necessary to spend that much - you can see that on autotrader or something.

  • Hot water is lovely, radiators are toasty, car runs fine. I got an induction hob and got the gas disconnected so we no longer have a gas bill (no standing charge) and we no longer buy petrol. We pay £144 a month on electricity, and I donated the bill rebates we got over winter to the local food bank. Life in the net zero world is fine - don't panic!

Why would it be ignored on a thread about heat pumps? It is literally what we are talking about.

What was the cost of installation and when did you have it done? And what is the footprint of the unit outside?

BocolateChiscuits · 10/09/2023 15:00

@EasternStandard @AlisonDonut overall cost to us was about £5k. We installed Jan 2022 and squeezed in before the old RHI scheme stopped. We did it out of environmental concern, knowing it would cost more.

Outside we have what looks to be one of those air con units - a rectangle with a fan on our patio. It's upright, so doesn't have a large footprint. Patio isn't visible from house, and eventually I want to get around to put a planter in front of the unit, to prettify (it's fine so long as it allows air flow, you can also buy wooden slatted screens). One weird thing, in this hot weather, you can turn it on to heat your water, and stand in front of it while it blasts cold air at you. Lovely!

We gave up a cupboard for the water tank - these can be put in the attic - but they need some indoor space.

VeloVixen · 10/09/2023 16:53

@BocolateChiscuits how old is your house and do you have a cavity wall? My house is late 1800s with no cavity wall. I’m sure that for some house the heat pumps will work as well as you say. However I also hear stories of them not working that well.

BocolateChiscuits · 11/09/2023 18:28

@VeloVixen (love your username) it's a terrace house, with solid walls, built in 1930.

We wanted to do a renovation on it, but wanted to get the heat pump installed while we could get the RHI, so we got it before adding any insulation, and actually because of lack of organisation have only just got around to putting insulation in.

When we had the gas combi boiler, the house was on the chilly side unless we had the heating on constantly - which would've been crazy expensive, so we wore jumpers a lot. Then we got the heat pump, and I was geared up for living in an ice box hell until we insulated, but actually, to my surprise, it was the same. The house is on the chilly side unless we have the heating on constantly - so we still wear jumpers a lot to save energy and money. 😂

Just in the last couple of months we've replaced windows and doors, put external wall insulation on the back and started on internal wall insulation on the rooms to the front. We're also planning underfloor insulation. I'm hoping this'll make a big difference in the Winter - it's certainly made things a lot more quiet, and cooler in the hot weather.

Honestly, I think that regardless of heating method, everyone should be able to insulate their house as much as possible given age and conservation considerations. And I think there should be easily accessible financial and practical help to do this - could the government back zero-interest upgrade mortgages, or train more insulation experts say? It's not fair to expect most of the country to struggle along in homes that are expensive to run and cold - people are literally dying at winter time, and most of the UK doesn't even get very cold.

Long-term, as the cost of heat pump installation reduces, I think that they will become a viable option for homes that really can't be insulated. The National Trust has even started putting it into some of their historic buildings. It's just you need a very powerful installation to overcome the inevitable heat loss, which is prohibitively expensive.

Also, there are other efficient electric options out there that aren't heat pumps, for example solar water heating, electric boilers, heat batteries and infra-red radiators, and these might be far more suitable options for some people.

changedusername190 · 11/09/2023 22:17

I've got a air source heat pump and I can't recommend it. Combined with under floor heating it fails at every turn.At ten years old it has been abandoned by Mitsubishi who refuse to service or maintain it.
Luckily we have an lpg boiler on the other side of the house so a bit of skilled planning has the 7 degree bedrooms sorted this winter as we lived in oodies last year.
I will give the gas board their due they continue to maintain and service on a plan despite its age.

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 13/09/2023 14:44

We gave up a cupboard for the water tank - these can be put in the attic - but they need some indoor space.

I'm in a small ground floor flat so no attic and no cupboards space to spare. I also don't want to lose any more space in the rooms to upgrade to triple radiators!

changedusername190 · 14/09/2023 19:26

I've got a heat pump and it's useless Hang on to your boilers.

User16328715 · 21/09/2023 07:35

So will the bill be amended or disappear as quietly as it appeared

EasternStandard · 21/09/2023 07:49

changedusername190 · 14/09/2023 19:26

I've got a heat pump and it's useless Hang on to your boilers.

I wasn’t looking forward to having to put one in

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