Lucy letby - New threads (Part 3)

[WhiteFire]

The last thread has closed. I have kept the thread title in line with the previous one for continuity.

I have just started listening to the Daily Mail podcasts which gives a good overview.

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-trial-of-lucy-letby/id1653090985

I've downloaded an app called Radio net so I can download them and then listen off line.

The evidence against her is compelling, the defence is pretty much "it wasn't me"

Because she’s a pathological liar and also thinks she’s so clever that others wouldn’t beable to outwit her. I remember Dr Shipman having similar personality traits.

It's because (possibly) narcissists think that they operate at a level above everyone else. They think they are special and the rest of us are stupid. She probably didn't think that anyone would expose her.

I'm guessing that this is why Donald Trump stole documents from the White House and never thought that he'd be caught.

Absolutely.

And everyone is innocent until proven guilty.

So if this was the witch hunt she claimed then she had every right to a defence team who could prove it.

It does.

There was lots of comment beforehand that her taking the stand would be her undoing. I wonder if her defence team tried to persuade her not to because her default seems to be to lie about actual facts.

I wonder if she got so use to people believing anything she said with her sweet little girl act she just thought she could pull it off?!

Where can I hear LL blame her friend? where in the podcast?

It seems very odd that she didn't try to blame her friend. If LL is a sociopath, narcissistic liar and had deliberately killed babies (the worst thing you can ever imagine or contemplate) why would she not blame her friend? Surely telling a fib and dropping your mate in it isn't even comparable to murdering babies? or is my understanding of sociopathic liars, narcissistic nut jobs and psychopaths out of date and actually they do value their friends and wouldn't harm everyone and anyone. It's very puzzling.

Where can I hear LL blame her friend? where in the podcast?

I can’t remember the exact episode but I heard it when the prosecuting barrister is questioning LL about the Insulin poisonings and it’s then he talks about her trying to blame her friend.

One of the things I am finding chilling on listening to the podcasts is the way LL apparently targeted certain babies, attacking them repeatedly. It's as if she was either playing with them, or regarded it as some sort of affront that they recovered from previous attacks. Also the arbitrariness of it - the she targeted these babies but not (fortunately) others. It must feel so desperate for the parents to know that the fact she chose their babies was so random.

It seems as though she targeted twins or triplets, though, of course, twins and triplets are always going to be prem so there will be more of them in any NICU.

In at least one case where the parents had twins, it had been an IVF pregnancy and this had been discussed with LL. Which leads me to think that LL would perhaps target babies that had been more difficult for their parents to conceive, thereby adding tragedy to an already long, drawn out process. She truly was a sadist.

The comparison to Harold shipman’s arrogance seems to chime. I do wonder if certain professions attract more psychopaths because of the power and status attached to them.

Please could somebody share the name of the podcast you're all referring to?

The Trial of Lucy Letby - its on Spotify, Apple, You Tube etc

https://open.spotify.com/show/1Kzpxy1tGKf0G4z0i3PfIM

Thank you!

I've got an app called Radio net (android) and I can download them to listen to off-line. (I don't have Spotify or such like)

I'm listening to them in my car, tbh it is a bit surreal listening to them knowing the outcomes of each charge.

Agreed.

sorry that was supposed to quote the post about Shipman. Most people seem to acknowledge that CEOs and politicians tend to attract those with dark triad personality types but healthcare certainly does as well. I was dating a cardiologist once - he was the most ridiculous charicateur of a person and was the very essence of ‘believing one’s own hype’

I'm not so sure it was that random. My understanding from some of the evidence made public is that she deliberately targeted the ones who were sickest and most vulnerable to start with. This is so she could play on their pre-existing conditions in order to make the 'collapses' seem to have a natural, underlying cause. We heard repeatedly that she preferred working amongst the sickest babies in the room designated for that purpose, and when assigned to another room became bored or agitated.

She repeatedly insisted the mother of one of the children had arrived in the nursery an hour later than she actually did, despite the telephone records showing a call made to her husband from the hospital shortly after her arrival. This was after Letby allegedly informed her she should go back to the ward.

This appears to have been been part of a calculating, premediated effort to cover her own tracks, as well as falsifying the times on records to make at appear that she hadn't been present at some of the collapses.

I can see now why Letby managed to take in so many people at the time; excepting, apparently, the seven consultants. The effectiveness with which she was able to manipulate others, the lengths gone to to conceal her actions, and her ability to lie repeatedly and with conviction are quite remarkable. They suggest a personality at grave odds with her unassuming appearance and softly spoken demeanour. Lucy Letby is far from ordinary or a 'vanilla killer'. She is one extraordinarily dangerous woman.

I have just got to the episodes where they are recounting when she was questioned by the police and then when giving her evidence to the jury was the way she seemed to so calmly deny the charges. If this was me (and if it was me I wouldn't have done it) I would have been absolutely screaming that I hadn't done it.

there in lies the reverse psychology that some people have eg one does protest too much.

True. But surely there is someone in the middle? And something with a little emotion rather than just a flat 'No'?

fair points

LL has a diagnosis of PTSD and reportedly takes high dose of antidepressants. This could explain the flat tone. I don't take any medication but I would present calmly and flatly too. It isn't a sign of guilt or innocence.

I'm not so sure it was that random. My understanding from some of the evidence made public is that she deliberately targeted the ones who were sickest and most vulnerable to start with. This is so she could play on their pre-existing conditions in order to make the 'collapses' seem to have a natural, underlying cause. We heard repeatedly that she preferred working amongst the sickest babies in the room designated for that purpose, and when assigned to another room became bored or agitated.

I'm not sure about that. At least some of the time the babies she targeted seemed to be doing very well and were in sight of going home - sometimes they were being looked after by other nurses in the wards for the less ill babies so she left her own charge to target these other babies. It adds another layer of horror, really. These were babies who had come through a lot, one at least was described as a real fighter, having gone through all that the parents must have been thinking that the worst was over, only to have the very worst happen out of the blue. LL certainly seems to have varied the way she attacked them to try to avert suspicion, however.

But she didn't have medication right after she was arrested.

She presented the same way in her police interviews. She wasn't medicated then. Apparently her ptsd is from being arrested.

Been away and on holiday and not listened for a couple of weeks but I've been catching up on some of the podcasts since coming home (something to listen to while processing the laundry 😏) and just listened to episode 60 The Whistleblower. Hopefully the link is to the correct episode.
About half way through, around 17/18 minutes in there is discussion of the circumstances of Tony Chambers and Ian Harvey leaving. It's really gobsmacking and disgraceful.
Apparently Ian Harvey said something along the lines of "he'd be in the South of France and they'd have to find him first" when someone asked what would happen if everything blew up after he'd gone.
And Mail reporters did find him, or at least his wife, who threatened to set the dogs on them!

They really were rats leaving a sinking ship though if they had had any sense they'd have left sooner. And there was a really toxic culture at the hospital, though unfortunately I am sure there are plenty of other hospitals with similar attitudes and behaviours. I think there is a real lack of a sense of public service and a desire to serve not just the patients but also the staff looking after the patients and to foster good relationships in too many hospital managers. They are just out to maximise their earnings and put some big change or another to their CV so they can go onto the next job.

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-trial-of-lucy-letby/id1653090985?i=1000626717751

Yes I listened to that like

I also find it telling that Kelly's current employers suspended her after some of the details of the trial came out. It shows that their behaviour wasn't seen as normal and probably facilitated LL carrying on and possibly knowing she could get away with it in the first place.

People like her can smell weakness a mile off.