Lucy Letby - new thread (part 2)

[anonymousamy]

A thread for anyone who was on the last one and wanted to continue the discussion.

What I cannot wrap my head around is Letby’s seemingly completely normal upbringing. Usually serial killers have displayed some kind of markers by the time they start killing, but AFAIK she literally had none. 100% believe she is guilty BTW - just cannot begin to understand it.

There was a discussion of some texts about how she wanted to go to NZ but she said it would devastate her parents.

Also that they were suffocating.

Her dad stayed the night at hers after they'd been on holiday together.

There’s a really good book called ‘Why Love Matters’ by Sue Gerhardt. I read it many years ago and loved it. In one part she talks about the background of the boys that murdered Jamie Bulger. She talks about how their home lives were filled with abuse and neglect. It helps to explain why they were able to do what they did.

I’m a psychotherapist so I spend a lot of time working out why people behave the way that they do so I have been trying to figure out why Lucy Letby would have done this.

And I just can’t. The thing is that so many people have complicated and difficult relationships with their parents. But Lucy Letby went onto to be the worst baby serial killer in the history of the UK.

And that’s the disconnect for me. So many people struggle with so many things and mostly do not murder tiny, defenceless babies.

There must be things that we don’t know.

Speaking as a childless only child who is close to her parents there are some really uncomfortable theories being thrown around on this thread by amateur psychologists.
Oh and as someone who also has an under active thyroid condition I’d also like to say that won’t necessarily make you infertile, jealous or murderous either.
Finally as someone who has been on the receiving end of a medical academic deciding they wanted to make someone the scapegoat for their oversight and choosing me, I think I’d better go and get some fresh air. You’ll have to forgive me as it all feels a bit personal, but no doubt that’s just my narcissism speaking, my upbringing being what it is.

Some of her parents' reactions have been indicative, and I mean that as a reflection on Lucy Letby (and her parents' knowledge of her as a person) NOT them. Allegedly (according to newspaper reports) her Mum said "I did it, take me instead" when Letby was arrested.
Again, according to reports, her Dad tidied her room and made her bed after she was arrested (on suspicion of murder!).
And it's utterly out of the ordinary for a parent to accompany an adult child (an adult home owner, with the intelligence to be a degree educated, registered clinician) to work disciplinary meetings.
It's all incredibly atypical of an 'everyday' adult child/parent relationship.

So perhaps they were fiercely protective because they knew her personally, and knew she wasn't your 'typical' everyday child/adult? I'm in no way suggesting her parents were aware of what she was capable of, incidentally - I'd stress that very strongly! However it seems very unlikely that someone capable of such horror wouldn't have displayed at least SOME out of the ordinary/concerning personality traits whilst growing up.

I wasn't trying to sound like a psychologist actually. My meaning was that most parents are emotionally attached to their children, and that isn't an unhealthy relationship to have. (Most people would have understood that).

I don’t think anyone should throw accusations at her parents ie try to intimate they are to blame as they are over bearing etc. plus no one knows if they fundamentally knew their daughter wasn’t right, so have spent decades protecting her.

the bottom like is Letby alone is to blame and there is something very very wrong with anyone who murders, never mind serial murders, babies.

it’s highly likely she’s psychopathic traits. But it’s also likely no one will ever know, even with therapists trying to unpick it.

why do any of them do it, shipman, Huntley, west. These people are few and far between, but they exist and they walk amongst us.

Why they are who they are, how their sick minds are wired, is at best an intelligent theory from experts in their field.

no one can spot it. Life isn’t an imitation of the film minority report. No one spots it until after the event.

I know what you meant @Araminta34 There does appear, from what we've seen, to be a kind of suffocating/intense relationship (or what others would deem as suffocating) taking your parents to a work disciplinary is just odd. Especially considering that they lived a couple of hours away.

I agree it's hard to understand.

My theories are that:

• she felt resentful of overbearing parents, so potentially angry with their guilting her for living away etc
• maybe she wasn't able to express her anger to her parents, or felt she had no control over her relationship with them, so needed an outlet
• work was the one place where she had control, particularly over the very poorly babies as she was one of only a few with the ICU qualification
• she projected her anger about her parents onto the parents of the babies, so felt that by hurting the babies she was punishing the parents (& in her mind her own parents)
• she enjoyed the attention (from all colleagues) during and after a stressful work event, so not only did she enjoy feeling in control, it gave her an outlet for her anger and she was rewarded by attention from people on the unit.

But I guess we'll never know, unless she confesses while undergoing therapy. But she's in prison for life so I suppose there's no incentive for her to do this.

Yep, they treated her as if she was more vulnerable than the average mid 20s adult.

And yet here you are, stating with authority, that there is no motive behind her actions.

Nothing to spot and no clear reason is what makes it so unfathomable. Even if she was born that way, there is no old teacher coming out to say she murdered the classroom hamster, no ex saying she tried to set his house on fire, no traumatic teenage pregnancy that her parents made her get rid of. There's nothing that even professionals can point at and say 'that's it'. Sadly only she can say and so far she won't.

Doubting isn’t stating with authority. It’s where I am too. I don’t want to understand, I’d be concerned about myself if I did.

Very, very much so.
And what I'm suggesting is (contrary to opinions on the chat) their protective nature was an established 'response' (to traits she had) as opposed to a choice; reflective of her personality, not theirs.

I think we'll never really know why she did it. But the way(s) in which she committed the murders, while incredibly cruel and malicious, didn't require any particular violence on her part. Just the normal things she would be doing as a nurse but obviously put to different ends. So I think perhaps that allowed her to maintain an illusion of herself (internally). Being a nurse was obviously central to her self-image in that respect, but I think if she doesn't experience real empathy the actual babies and their families were just tools to experience other things vicariously - high octane situations. People with this personality type can be really good at masking, but they are chronically bored and feel very empty, so they seek out stimulation. I think that's the only explanation that makes sense, except of course for most of us it makes no sense because we don't have the same brain chemistry.

Anyone struggling with the whys of this case, I'd recommend giving a listen to HG Tudor. He's a diagnosed narcissistic psychopath. He explains how cluster Bs like this see and respond to the world and how the narcissist has a monster which screams at them internally. He can be very irritating to listen to because of his narcissism but he is aware of who he is and is and is able to give some perspectives on why some become serial killers.

These people just don't think like the rest of us. Lucy Letby will have been wearing a mask of normality and 'beige' so that she wasn't exposed. It's exactly like Chris Watts.

Letby's mugshot is striking in terms of the 'mask' analogy. That mugshot, whereupon her face is completely relaxed/emotionless with the full on 'psycho dead eye', is the real Letby. The smiley pics we see of her prior are the mask. They genuinely look like two different people.

Ironic isn’t it!

I see what you mean. Could be either way I suppose though - chicken or egg?

Honestly some of the crap being posted on this thread. Particularly about Lucy Letby's parents who are already going through a horrific time without having nonsensical speculation and made up stuff being said publicly about them.

They may have been sad that their only child had chosen to work and live in a different part of England. But they did nothing to try and prevent this. In fact, they helped her to buy a house in Chester.

Many people are creatures of habit where holidays are concerned, particularly older people. I know lots of couples who go to the same place several times a year for holidays. And I know lots of young adults who sometimes accompany their parents on these holidays. That is a sign of a functioning and affectionate family, but some people are trying to put a ridiculous and negative slant on it.

At disciplinary and investigative work meetings it is normal to be invited to bring somebody along. Some people bring union reps, but others bring friends, partners or if they're quite young (Lucy was 25 at the time) it would not be unusual for a parent to offer support.

There is no evidence that John and Susan Letby were anything other than loving and supportive parents, who are in shock and horror and what their daughter has been found guilty of. Can people not leave them alone?

@Araminta34

I wasn't trying to sound like a psychologist actually. My meaning was that most parents are emotionally attached to their children, and that isn't an unhealthy relationship to have. (Most people would have understood that).

I agree with you. I was referring to the PP who you quoted using buzzwords like attachment and narcissistic without really having a clue what they're talking about.

Again, according to reports, her Dad tidied her room and made her bed after she was arrested (on suspicion of murder!)

Well, if my daughter was arrested by the police on suspicion of murder and I was in her house, I'd tidy up for something to do. I'd be beside myself and would more than likely be scrubbing floors and cleaning the windows, too. Physical activity when you're under intense stress can really help. If he'd just driven back to his home at that point he probably wouldn't have driven safely.

There was a discussion of some texts about how she wanted to go to NZ but she said it would devastate her parents.

I think most parents would be devastated by that, particularly if they only had one child.

My personal theory is that she just enjoyed other people’s suffering. Hence attacking babies, then messaging colleagues about it and searching the parents on Facebook.

Most human behaviour is on a spectrum. We’ve all seen the grief vulture threads on here with wailing and outpouring of grief when a child posters have never met dies. I think she’s just at the extreme end of that, to the point where she creates the grief so she can lap it up.

Exactly. The pp throwing accusations about this being strange is being very unfair and hasn't thought it through very well

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