Page 3 | Lucy Letby - new thread (part 2)

anonymousamy · 2023-08-26T21:32:27+00:00

A thread for anyone who was on the last one and wanted to continue the discussion. What I cannot wrap my head around is Letby’s seemingly completely normal upbringing. Usually serial killers have displayed some kind of markers by the time they start killing, but AFAIK she literally had none. 100% believe she is guilty BTW - just cannot begin to understand it.

EarringsandLipstick · 27/08/2023 09:31

I can understand people wanting a logical explanation for this awful crime, and to understand her motivation.

However, the reality is, there isn't one. It's doubtful she had one. The posts guessing - and even more, stating as if they've some authority - are bizarre and in my view, tasteless.

determinedtomakethiswork · 27/08/2023 09:49

Zaaarrr · 26/08/2023 22:43

I think it was normal in its middle class-ness and therefore normal in that many of us on MN can relate to that as an upbringing.

But not normal in other ways. Not wanting her to move away for university or for work going on holiday to the same place three times a year for decades. Taking both parents to the disciplinary meeting when she was twenty six instead of a union rep or manager.

I have a different view about that meeting with HR. Imagine how terrifying it would be if you were innocent and rumours were going around that you were killing babies. If she is normally quite reliant on her parents for advice, I can see why she would want them there because they are absolutely going to be on her side.

determinedtomakethiswork · 27/08/2023 09:53

truthhurts23 · 27/08/2023 04:03

Her parents clearly have an unhealthy attachment to her,
aren’t they currently selling their house to move closer to the prison ?

I do think Lucy secretly resents her mother in particular, I just have a feeling that the mother was controlling and overbearing
I wouldn’t be surprised if one or both parents have narcissistic traits

Your feeling about her mother is just a feeling though. It's not based on anything at all.

If I were her parents, I would be moving nearer to her as well. It must be awful for them living in Hereford. They are getting older now and obviously she won't ever get out of prison so they need to be closer to her if they want to visit her.

Araminta34 · 27/08/2023 09:56

Her parents clearly have an unhealthy attachment to her,
aren’t they currently selling their house to move closer to the prison ?

How on earth can parents have 'an unhealthy attachment' to their child?

determinedtomakethiswork · 27/08/2023 10:09

I think what has happened is that people are so desperate to find a reason why she acted the way she did, and because there's nothing they can find, they think it must be down to her parents. Nothing has been said about her parents is really unusual. She is an only child and they were close. She went on those holidays voluntarily. She had regular contact with them. If they were abusive, then she had the perfect excuse not to spend time with them. They look completely devastated and it's really unfair for people to suggest that they were abusive and that's why she kills babies.

WhiskersPete · 27/08/2023 10:11

Her parents clearly have an unhealthy attachment to her,
aren’t they currently selling their house to move closer to the prison ?

How on earth can parents have 'an unhealthy attachment' to their child?

This is the problem with trying to sound like a psychologist when you're not one.

Changeychang · 27/08/2023 10:23

Just a couple of points:

she had actually killed babies before she met the doctor she was infatuated with
As for the hospital notes etc found under her bed. If you were accused of something so serious, would you not be tempted to get your hands on all relevant documentation to try to understand what the information against you was?

Unlikedandconfused · 27/08/2023 10:27

Anotherchristianmama · 26/08/2023 23:35

But we don't know this. Her parents might have been horribly abusive for all we know.

Show quote history

I did wonder as I’d heard she was premature herself ? And her parents seemed over invested/ a bit clingy (not wanting her to move away?) did she feel suffocated and in some twisted way thought she was stopping it from happening to others who were starting life as she supposedly had?

DrRuthGalloway · 27/08/2023 10:27

Of course you can have an unhealthy attachment to your child.

You can take an anxious child and, out of love, accidentally help them avoid all scary things and think your major role is about protecting your child. This will make their anxiety worse. That is the case for very small children, but your role as a parent is to set them off to live their own lives. That is an unhealthy type of attachment.

You can believe that your child can do no wrong and is the most marvellous creature in the universe. I don't mean feel they they are in the way nature programmes us to, but know they aren't really, I mean genuinely believe that they are. You can indulge every whim and buy every item for fear of your child's upset and make them believe they are the centre of the universe. That is an unhealthy type of attachment.

You can believe your child is bad and try desperately to "save" them by beating the devil out of them. That is an unhealthy attachment.

You can make your child feel guilty for wanting to separate from you and forge their own life, cling on to them, and that's unhealthy too.

There are so many ways it's possible to have an unhealthy relationship dynamic with ones children, including when adult.
As Philip Larkin said, "They fuck you up, your mum and dad. They may not mean to, but they do".

Which doesn't mean they shoulder the blame for what their daughter did btw!

Reallynotoverreacting · 27/08/2023 10:32

Do you think she will eventually admit to the crimes?
Is life, life? Or if she confesses will she have the chance to reduce the sentence?

GigiAnnna · 27/08/2023 10:37

Reallynotoverreacting · 27/08/2023 10:32

Do you think she will eventually admit to the crimes?
Is life, life? Or if she confesses will she have the chance to reduce the sentence?

She's never going to be eligible for parole, she will never get out.

Libraryloiterer · 27/08/2023 10:41

DrRuthGalloway · 27/08/2023 10:27

Of course you can have an unhealthy attachment to your child.

You can take an anxious child and, out of love, accidentally help them avoid all scary things and think your major role is about protecting your child. This will make their anxiety worse. That is the case for very small children, but your role as a parent is to set them off to live their own lives. That is an unhealthy type of attachment.

You can believe that your child can do no wrong and is the most marvellous creature in the universe. I don't mean feel they they are in the way nature programmes us to, but know they aren't really, I mean genuinely believe that they are. You can indulge every whim and buy every item for fear of your child's upset and make them believe they are the centre of the universe. That is an unhealthy type of attachment.

You can believe your child is bad and try desperately to "save" them by beating the devil out of them. That is an unhealthy attachment.

You can make your child feel guilty for wanting to separate from you and forge their own life, cling on to them, and that's unhealthy too.

There are so many ways it's possible to have an unhealthy relationship dynamic with ones children, including when adult.
As Philip Larkin said, "They fuck you up, your mum and dad. They may not mean to, but they do".

Which doesn't mean they shoulder the blame for what their daughter did btw!

I think what you're talking about is an unhealthy relationship or bond.

'Attachment' is the thing experienced by the child in relation to their caregiver.

Cheeseandlobster · 27/08/2023 10:41

anonymousamy · 27/08/2023 06:34

Her parents sound like they loved her and were very proud of her - even taking out an advert in the local paper to say congratulations when she got her degree I believe, and another one to say happy birthday on her 21st (I think). It sounds like they were in complete denial over her crimes and the fact they’ve supported her so strongly throughout all this suggests they were a close family. I cannot imagine how you begin to come to terms with the fact your daughter is a serial killer of babies. From what I know I feel immensely sorry for them.

I do too. Someone else said on the previous thread that it's not just the loss of the big things like grandchildren and watching her get married, but the loss of the mundane stuff too like having a cup of tea in front of the telly or going for a meal together.

MikeRafone · 27/08/2023 10:41

The more I read about this case, the more I believe that Texas sharpshooter fallacy has been used. Is that enough circumstantial evidence to convict someone? There is mention also of this case mirroring a case of a nurse in Banbury - which also used Texas sharpshooter fallacy

SleeplessInShoeburyness · 27/08/2023 10:48

Blossomandbee · 27/08/2023 09:26

On the post it note found in her room she had written that she would never get married or have children. I wonder if there was some sort of deep seated jealousy towards the parents and resentment of the babies because they represented what she couldn't have herself. Maybe also jealousy and anger that the consultant she fancied had a family too. These babies and families were everything that made her hurt and angry, and she was in a position to destroy their happiness.
The fact she repeatedly got away with what she was doing, and even had people apologising to her must have made her feel powerful and completely untouchable.

I read that about not having DC. I thought it was odd as she was so young and it seemed very final (thought note was written before arrest with the other one saying she hated herself?).

Could she have been infertile herself and her crimes were born out of jealousy of new mothers which she figured out also gave her a lot of attention and a god complex?

ASoapImpressionOfHisWifeWhichHeAte · 27/08/2023 10:51

MikeRafone · 26/08/2023 23:41

An interesting interview with a chap on TikTok called Scott McLachan, what he is basically suggesting that the 'Texas sharpshooter fallacy' was used by the police and then the prosecution..

From what I've read I definitely think that this may be the case xxxx

ASoapImpressionOfHisWifeWhichHeAte · 27/08/2023 10:51

Didn't mean the x's- silly phone!

Jellycats4life · 27/08/2023 10:53

Could she have been infertile herself and her crimes were born out of jealousy of new mothers which she figured out also gave her a lot of attention and a god complex?

I’ve heard this theory put forth over and over and I don’t buy it. She didn’t know she was infertile. She’s seemingly never had a serious relationship. She was young. I don’t think she was concerned about her own fertility one bit.

My interpretation of the statement “I’ll never marry or have children” is “because I’m going to prison for a long time”.

DrRuthGalloway · 27/08/2023 11:14

Libraryloiterer · 27/08/2023 10:41

I think what you're talking about is an unhealthy relationship or bond.

'Attachment' is the thing experienced by the child in relation to their caregiver.

Show quote history

No, "attachment", outside of the specific meaning used in the psychological theory of attachment, is a relationship between two people. I am very strongly attached to my husband, for example. Bowlby himself actually defined attachment as "a lasting psychological connectedness between human beings".

I don't believe in gatekeeping word meanings to demonstrate insider knowledge.

Anyway this is off topic, so...

OhComeOnFFS · 27/08/2023 11:21

Could she have been infertile herself and her crimes were born out of jealousy of new mothers which she figured out also gave her a lot of attention and a god complex?

There's no way she knows if she's infertile. She doesn't have to be infertile to be jealous of new mums.

One thing she did do was ruin special events - a baby was killed on Father's Day. Another was killed on the day they should have left the hospital. Another was killed on their due date. Another was killed on the 100th day of their life.

SleeplessInShoeburyness · 27/08/2023 11:47

OhComeOnFFS · 27/08/2023 11:21

Could she have been infertile herself and her crimes were born out of jealousy of new mothers which she figured out also gave her a lot of attention and a god complex?

There's no way she knows if she's infertile. She doesn't have to be infertile to be jealous of new mums.

One thing she did do was ruin special events - a baby was killed on Father's Day. Another was killed on the day they should have left the hospital. Another was killed on their due date. Another was killed on the 100th day of their life.

How do we know that she didn’t know if she was infertile? She could have had medical treatment or investigation as a child for something else and it been discovered.

Would the police /prosecution have had access to her complete medical records and been able to use them in evidence?

If we’re looking at motive, what would have attracted someone who obviously had no empathy for newborns to work as a neonatal nurse? She could have worked in any area of nursing.

msmonstera · 27/08/2023 12:01

Narcissists don't take accountability for their actions. They penalise others for reacting negatively to their actions. She played the victim and accused the consultants of bullying her. They had to write her a letter of apology. She quite probably still thinks of herself as a victim. This can't be a brand new behaviour.
However I don't understand how someone from a normal background with an uneventful normal trajectory of school, uni, work could be oblivious to probable consequences. Eg you steal- caught- arrested- punished. We know this from childhood. I can't fathom what drove her to murder babies (apparently she started before involvement with the Dr crush) but even as she clearly didn't care about anyone else's life she must still have cared about her own. She'll never again have a fancy cocktail, holiday to Ibiza or even pick her own dinner never mind a sex life, husband or her own babies. She can't not have known as a HCP that unexplained deaths get followed up and murder has consequences that even mum and dad can't magic away. The 'why' in this is such a mystery. My sympathies are with the bereaved parents.

Blossomandbee · 27/08/2023 12:09

If we’re looking at motive, what would have attracted someone who obviously had no empathy for newborns to work as a neonatal nurse? She could have worked in any area of nursing

Wanting to feel powerful. Having control over patients who can't fight back or tell anyone.

BIossomtoes · 27/08/2023 12:47

My sympathies are with the bereaved parents.

And mine. That’s the bottom line.

OhComeOnFFS · 27/08/2023 12:49

If she was infertile it would have been brought up in court. It's crazy going down that route.