Lucy Letby - new thread (part 2)

[anonymousamy]

A thread for anyone who was on the last one and wanted to continue the discussion.

What I cannot wrap my head around is Letby’s seemingly completely normal upbringing. Usually serial killers have displayed some kind of markers by the time they start killing, but AFAIK she literally had none. 100% believe she is guilty BTW - just cannot begin to understand it.

@Hawkins009 He (Barrister) asked her to spell the mother's name. So she started to but then said she couldn't remember it. So he said "That's funny, because we have evidence that you searched for this mother on Facebook multiple times, using handover sheets stating her name, which were found under your bed......."

Ah I see, much appreciated.

I feel as perplexed as you, OP. I have sat through umpteen court cases and reported on many horrific crimes, but I have never come across anything like the Letby case. On the surface, there are many similarities to the Beverley Allitt case but once you scratch just a tiny bit, you learn that BA was very unwell and had been for a long time. She was caught quickly, too.

But there was absolutely nothing about Letby beyond behaviour typical of a single, professional person in their late-20s/early 30s. The best anyone has come up with is a class photo and a quote "she had a weirdness about her". Please, that is beyond weak.

To me, it sounds like the behaviour typical of a seasoned arsonist - someone tasked with a saviour role who becomes addicted to setting then putting out fires, and watching the drama unfold. If this is such a thing in medicine, then I can't help but think there will be more Letbys out there, so far going unnoticed.

Her parents clearly have an unhealthy attachment to her,
aren’t they currently selling their house to move closer to the prison ?

I do think Lucy secretly resents her mother in particular, I just have a feeling that the mother was controlling and overbearing
I wouldn’t be surprised if one or both parents have narcissistic traits

No excuses obviously, but I am surprised at all the people who seem so confident she had a normal middle-class upbringing. We never know what really goes on behind the door even in "nice" families.

1. She wanted attention from a married male doctor who she had a big crush on. They flirted texted and met up a few times to a dodgy extent. I think he enjoyed the attention. & When he gave evidence in court, she left or tried to leave her seat because she said she felt unwell but the prosecuting barrister suggested it was because she didn't like seeing her boyfriend give evidence against her.

2. She knew that the way to bond with men was to be in crisis situations together. She created the crisis of the babies and requested him to help out. Then they would exchange compliments and bond over it.

3. She probably saw the babies as victimless crimes because there's no way a baby can call the police on her. These days as well people are calling for later and later abortion and diminishing the value of baby life even right up to term - perhaps this is how she rationalised it

I think the weirdness is because she did it for attention, not because she had a murderous hatred of her vulnerable victims. She's a psychopath thou, and they are so limited and horrific that they are almost beyond understanding

@Octosaurus your third point is interesting and perhaps she did rationalize it this way. There was that woman who everyone defended after having an abortion at 34 weeks - developmentally the baby was more mature than some of the babies LL murdered. Maybe LL thought there was less value in very young babies' lives? But maybe it had nothing to do with that and she would have killed adults too. I guess we'll never know.

With regards to her taking handover notes home, is this normal? Is there any reason a nurse needs to have these outside the hospital?

It is absolutely nothing to do with late term abortion. She killed a full term baby for a start. She simply saw babies lives as less important than her aims, whatever they were. I think to be that callous you're probably born like it, but sadly people treating others horrifically isn't rare. There's so many instances throughout history where people have caused tremendous suffering to others.

We're supposed to put them in the confidential waste bin to be shredded, but I've taken them home by accident sometimes. So have my colleagues. I will take it back to my next shift to be put in the confidential waste.

"seems".

I think we will never understand fully
my best guess is -
that she has always had a tendency for attention - at home she never had to fight for it. She grew up with what seem like very over bearing parents albeit good loving parents who possibly over indulged her. She probably got on ok at school but was never over popular but did have friends. She moved away from home - which parents did not like. She all of a sudden didn’t have that attention from people she once had. A baby could have possibly died who she was treating naturally and she got attention / adrenaline / a kick from the aftermath and then it spiralled.

But did she have a normal upbringing? That’s a big question that hasn’t been answered. All the ‘suffocating’ text documented by LL and then taking your parents to a work tribunal maybe suggests a blurring of boundaries or some sort of enmeshment. Someone qualified maybe able to give a better insight into this. I just feel that there’s more too it than meets the eye.

Her parents sound like they loved her and were very proud of her - even taking out an advert in the local paper to say congratulations when she got her degree I believe, and another one to say happy birthday on her 21st (I think). It sounds like they were in complete denial over her crimes and the fact they’ve supported her so strongly throughout all this suggests they were a close family. I cannot imagine how you begin to come to terms with the fact your daughter is a serial killer of babies. From what I know I feel immensely sorry for them.

Is it ‘normal’ to have so few defence witnesses?

Sorry, the birthday message was in fact from someone else.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1804549/lucy-letby-parents-note-before-murders-spt

Thanks for answering.

So would you say it was unusual she had so many?

Her defence was that she didn't do it so she couldn't have had a load of witnesses to back that up.

Has her appeal been announced yet?

Sorry..... I should have googled first

metro.co.uk/2023/08/24/fundraiser-to-help-lucy-letby-appeal-against-her-conviction-launched-19392367/

Reallllllly interesting?

🤦🏻‍♀️

On the post it note found in her room she had written that she would never get married or have children. I wonder if there was some sort of deep seated jealousy towards the parents and resentment of the babies because they represented what she couldn't have herself. Maybe also jealousy and anger that the consultant she fancied had a family too. These babies and families were everything that made her hurt and angry, and she was in a position to destroy their happiness.
The fact she repeatedly got away with what she was doing, and even had people apologising to her must have made her feel powerful and completely untouchable.

her reaction feels, to me, quite natural and normal. God knows I’d’ve snapped at times in those circumstances.

I don’t think it’s massively odd for the parents to have accompanied her to those meetings. Again, I can imagine my very supportive mum offering if it was me.

I don’t know if there is any explanation sadly, which is frustrating as the brain will search and search, trying to make sense. But I don’t think we’ll ever know, especially if she continues to maintain her innocence.

On the post it note found in her room she had written that she would never get married or have children. I wonder if there was some sort of deep seated jealousy towards the parents and resentment of the babies because they represented what she couldn't have herself. Maybe also jealousy and anger that the consultant she fancied had a family too. These babies and families were everything that made her hurt and angry, and she was in a position to destroy their happiness.

But this was after she had been accused, and her reputation trashed, wasn’t it. I don’t understand why those notes are held up as evidence of her guilt.