Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Lucy Letby - new thread

1000 replies

anonymousamy · 21/08/2023 22:23

No idea why the last one was taken down, but for anyone who wants to continue the discussion on Letby, I’m starting a new thread here.

I’m 100% sure she’s guilty, but I’m still massively struggling to comprehend why on earth she did it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
38
Namechange77427 · 22/08/2023 01:12

I think she just didn’t care about what she was doing.
Some people are vegan and are disgusted at the idea of eating meat while the vast majority of the population eat meat and don’t bat an eye
some people kill every spider they see, but would never hurt a dog
some people slap their dog but wouldn’t raise a hand to their kids
some people slap their kids but wouldn’t hit a grown up
Some violent men that have hurt other men think men that hit women or children are disgusting.
Some would rape but never murder
I think LL just didn’t care, we all have varying levels of morality and I think she just did what she wanted and didn’t have enough empathy to care about the hurt she was causing. I don’t know exactly why she decided to do it in the first place.. power?

ErniesGhostlyGoldTops · 22/08/2023 01:13

LL is a case of Munchausen by proxy. She did it to get attention and sympathy from co workers and primarily the doctor she had a crush on.

Blueink · 22/08/2023 01:17

anonymousamy · 21/08/2023 22:37

I think statements like this, from the judge, only serve to give these psychopaths the power they crave:

However, the judge said it was not for him to “reach conclusions about the underlying reasons” for Letby’s actions. “Nor could I,” he added. “For they are known only to you.”

Or am I reading too much into it?

(Via the Guardiam)

No I think he’s saying no point really speculating on LLs motives and it’s actually dismissive of her - as in why waste our time.

SequinsandStiIettos · 22/08/2023 01:24

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

SequinsandStiIettos · 22/08/2023 01:27

Ah that's not come out right. Maybe someone can repost. Times article from Sat.

Hawkins009 · 22/08/2023 01:39

Blueink · 22/08/2023 01:17

No I think he’s saying no point really speculating on LLs motives and it’s actually dismissive of her - as in why waste our time.

If that's the case then why is there a whole industry or big business with eg serial killers, CSI shows etc,

yippyde · 22/08/2023 01:49

@Solonge I apologise. You're right about it being a noun as well as an adjective. I had never heard of anyone using the term A psychotic before. It was this extra A in the sentence which made me assume that what was meant was that LL is A psycho(path)

Nothing I've heard at all has indicated that LL has experienced psychosis either now or during the crimes. What is it about the case that suggests psychosis? As for "no cure" I don't feel this is a fair description - psychosis can be treated and many people who have one episode never have another again.

Elvera2 · 22/08/2023 01:55

CurlewKate · 21/08/2023 22:39

Also worth thinking about the role racism played in this whole awful business.

I'm assuming that this comment is regarding the racial heritage of the babies who were attacked.

These people, of course have anonymity. But one of the questions asked of Lucy Letby by the prosecution had to do with the fact that she couldn't spell one of the family names correctly from memory. But she had been searching for them on Facebook. The prosecutors point was that she must have been keeping medical documents so that she could search for these families on Facebook.

Blueink · 22/08/2023 01:58

Hawkins009 · 22/08/2023 01:39

If that's the case then why is there a whole industry or big business with eg serial killers, CSI shows etc,

This was a response to a PP specifically about the message being conveyed by the Judge.

I don’t really understand what one thing has to do with the other. I doubt the judge has an involvement in entertainment shows that feed public curiosity.

Hawkins009 · 22/08/2023 02:07

Blueink · 22/08/2023 01:58

This was a response to a PP specifically about the message being conveyed by the Judge.

I don’t really understand what one thing has to do with the other. I doubt the judge has an involvement in entertainment shows that feed public curiosity.

Fair points, but with the meaning of that people should not speculate the motives of LL, then does the judge not know that there's many psychology textbooks etc and various academic research on the subjects of psychopaths, serial killers etc
So it seems at odds with university research and academia in general for a judge to infer that perspective.

Elvera2 · 22/08/2023 02:09

Well I took it to mean that since there were no mitigating circumstances, the judge felt it was pointless speculating about why she may have done this?

hihelenhi · 22/08/2023 02:10

StoptheworldIwantogetoff · 22/08/2023 00:28

I wasnt going to post but named changed. I looked at her picture ages back and thought yeah she could have done this. You know why because I'm not a white middle class educated Woman. I don't see her like most of you do. I just see a woman who has been found guilty of something terrible.
I think for some of you it's like holding a mirror up to yourselves and realising someone who looks a bit like you or your friend/daughter/sister etc is capable of doing something like this.
If it was a Black or Asian or maybe a Male nurse I think there wouldn't be all this "She looks so normal" trope on here. Be honest with yourselves some of you can't believe it because she looks middle class and pretty like lots of you.

I quite agree - and I AM white, educated and middle class (well, sort of). I'm actually quite shocked people are saying this, as if they expect all murderers to be people they obviously consider "of the lower orders" or panto villains. Not so. (although I don't think Lucy is particularly posh). Ted Bundy wasn't. Jeremy Bamber wasn't. Ben Field, more recently, is the very image of bland nice white middle classness and a vicar's son!

And if you look through history, I'm afraid "nice ordinary" people often end up doing or condoning absolutely terrible things. The fear is that the monster really can be among us, I think, although to me "butter wouldn't melt" is always a bit of a telling phrase. Murder is vastly rarer in women (the prison stats are very revealing), though, but it should never be considered impossible

coxesorangepippin · 22/08/2023 02:13

I completely agree with stop the world's post.

Even Ted Bundy's judge who sentenced him said it was a shame!!

Hawkins009 · 22/08/2023 02:15

Elvera2 · 22/08/2023 02:09

Well I took it to mean that since there were no mitigating circumstances, the judge felt it was pointless speculating about why she may have done this?

Fair points, I could be wrong with my analysis.

Elvera2 · 22/08/2023 02:17

Me too, I mean I have no idea really 🤷🏻‍♀️

hihelenhi · 22/08/2023 02:26

Sorry if anyone's already posted this, but it has the thoughts of a lot of different psychologists.

https://news.sky.com/story/lucy-letby-inside-the-mind-of-a-serial-killer-the-psychology-behind-healthcare-murderers-12941902

Couple of pertinent extracts:

"Another reason for delays in catching healthcare killers is that society is conditioned to believe certain groups of people are "good", she says. "For example, the Catholic priesthood, the Boy Scouts. We as a society have been in denial for years where we think really good, upstanding citizens like a Catholic priest or a Boy Scout leader could possibly be molesting children."

"And while people may think serial killers or psychopaths might stand out, Dr Carter Woodrow says it is often the opposite. "It is not really a question of looking different. It's looking the same as everyone else - and that's how you fool people.""

Blueink · 22/08/2023 02:27

Hawkins009 · 22/08/2023 02:07

Fair points, but with the meaning of that people should not speculate the motives of LL, then does the judge not know that there's many psychology textbooks etc and various academic research on the subjects of psychopaths, serial killers etc
So it seems at odds with university research and academia in general for a judge to infer that perspective.

I don’t think it’s odd given the speaker, the context of the case and the level of speculation about motive.

The trial was focussed on evidence and bringing justice. The judge chose to highlight the suffering of the families and not focus on the cowardly perpetrator who has not owned up and didn’t even turn up.

I’m sure the judge is aware there are criminology text books, but again not sure what relevance that has to the summing up.

To add, the senior detective on the case also said motive isn’t as important as the public think. He explained motive is most helpful in the early stages of an investigation to identify a suspect.

Firefly1987 · 22/08/2023 02:27

A lot of people on the net (not here) seem to be using this horrific case as a way to comment on abortion and I find it offensive and tone deaf. I understand abortion laws are a very controversial subject right now in some parts of the world but I wish they would keep their comments to themselves on the LL case if that's all they intend to bang on about 😡

I think she is just a narc-I don't have experience of dealing with one (thankfully) but from what I know they are deeply unhappy people under the surface and have a need to bring other people down to their level and that's what she was doing. I don't believe the whole "she was jealous she couldn't have kids" etc. (I don't believe there's any reason she physically couldn't-that alone referred to her knowing she was going to prison) but jealously probably paid a big part in other ways-mainly she just couldn't stand anyone else getting attention.

Firefly1987 · 22/08/2023 02:38

Redmat · 21/08/2023 23:27

I think we keep saying she appeared so normal because we would expect her to be a loner without friends. We want to hear that there were signs, that teachers will come foward and say they remember her stamping on insects or behaving cruelly. There is none of that( it appears so far.) So it makes it even harder for us to try to make sense of the already unthinkable.

I've seen her described as both a loner and with an active social life! I don't think she strikes me as a loner but people have pointed out she didn't have much life or it centred around work only with much older friends and went on holiday with parents. But that's because all her school friends were back in Hereford probably, not sure about uni friends? I think in a case like this the person's life would naturally be scrutinised to a high degree by everyone. I just wonder what she acted like in her childhood when the attention was not on her-ie birthday parties, school plays etc. that would be very telling.

Elvera2 · 22/08/2023 02:51

Interesting video by someone who attended the court hearings. He says that she would try to get sympathy from jurors and was completely unflappable when caught in a lie.

Guessina · 22/08/2023 03:15

anonymousamy · 21/08/2023 22:23

No idea why the last one was taken down, but for anyone who wants to continue the discussion on Letby, I’m starting a new thread here.

I’m 100% sure she’s guilty, but I’m still massively struggling to comprehend why on earth she did it.

The judge's sentencing remarks here cover everything that she was found to have done and goes into detail how she killed those babies and tried to harm and kill the others: www.spectator.co.uk/article/read-the-king-v-lucy-letby-sentencing-remarks-in-full/

From what I've read in the number of articles on Letby these past few days, I've discovered that:

  • her mother was 30 when she had Letby while her father was 44
  • that her mother had a difficult birth
  • her parents have always been over involved in her life
  • her parents doted on Letby
  • they took her on holidays every year
  • they bought the house Letby lived in
  • they were very unhappy when Letby moved far away from them and they wanted to move closer to her but Letby felt her parents were overbearing and liked the distance

From the above, and from other articles I've read (mostly the Guardian for no reason), I get the sense that Letby's parents have smothered her since she was little and that their over-involvement in her life and need to catch her every time before she falls and lay cotton wool wherever she walks has damaged her, much in the same way people say some parents of Millennials have bred a generation of people with deeply low-self esteem and self loathing.
I think her parents' behavior can be seen in the way she can do no wrong in their eyes. While I understand most parents will support their children, the facts of this case are chilling and the way her parents moved to Manchester to attend the trial daily and the way Letby's father got involved to ensure that Stephen Brearey and the other consultants apologised to Letby was absolutely bonkers.

Could it be that Letby herself was a NICU baby and this is the link? I just find it odd that she wanted passionately to be a nurse since she was a child only to end up doing what she has done. The way that she lit up when babies had complications or, in one instance, when Letby discovered a mother was a haemophiliac m, was odd and only seemed to activate the sadist in her. I sense she has had such an unhappy life at the hands of her parents that it has left her feeling so useless, non-descript and unremarkable, that the only way she could gain attention was to create situations where she could become the savior or be perceived in a certain way. I read that several years ago she was literally the poster girl for sone charity at the hospital. I think she liked that kind of attention.

The description of how calculating she was and the truly sadistic things she did are sickening. I can't believe she would write sympathy cards for the parents of the babies she'd murdered and later would search for them on Facebook(?!?) Perhaps so she could relish and keep tabs on their grief. How messed up?
There's also been suggestions by criminal psychologists that Letby had a god complex: enjoying being able to choose who would live or die, as well as being envious of the happy families she came across in the ward because of her own inadequacies.

Much like Jeff Dahmer's dad, I think her parents have created a monster which is a shame because they love her so much and have done the best for her. Letby is clearly damaged in some way

hihelenhi · 22/08/2023 03:22

I think she was an NCU baby according to her friend. Hence wanting to work in one since she was very young.

NewNextOfKin · 22/08/2023 03:41

The Sociopath Next Door by Martha Stout is a good introduction to these characters.

Guessina · 22/08/2023 03:43

hihelenhi · 22/08/2023 03:22

I think she was an NCU baby according to her friend. Hence wanting to work in one since she was very young.

Oh god...

curaçao · 22/08/2023 03:51

She got away with it for so long.it makes you wonder hiw many other Letby/shipman/Allitts there are still out there?

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.