Lucy Letby - new thread

[anonymousamy]

No idea why the last one was taken down, but for anyone who wants to continue the discussion on Letby, I’m starting a new thread here.

I’m 100% sure she’s guilty, but I’m still massively struggling to comprehend why on earth she did it.

@bluegreenandcoral

You would rather do your child’s sentence when they themselves were the ones who committed the crime? If my adult daughter had murdered all of those babies I would grieve for the loss of my DD like she had died, but no, I wouldn’t want to do the whole life order myself. It’s called a consequence for horrific, evil behaviour. Even as her mother I can see that.

But that would mean your murderous child is out there and free to murder more.

@CherryMaDeara

Exactly. It’s warped. I would still love my DD, but I know right from wrong and I couldn’t enable evil. No way.

How is it a bold statement? It’s true that all of the coverage saying she felt “suffocated” stems from one short exchange of text messages.

To be honest my parents would probably be devastated if I moved to New Zealand, I suspect a lot of parents would be.

I meant it in the context of a hypothetical universe where you have to choose whether your child is a murderer or you spend your life in prison.

Obviously this universe doesn’t exist so was a bit of a silly example really 🙃

No I can’t even bear to think what I’d do if I genuinely believed my child was guilty. I honestly can’t even imagine it and hope I never have to live it because I can’t think of anything worse.

With the level of suspicion too it’s hard to believe that nobody was watching her closely. More than that she clearly wasn’t worried anyone would be watching either ?

It is a bold statement because you said it like it was a fact. We are all just speculating. None of us actually know anything. In the context of that text conversation I think it runs deeper. She said they massively worried about “everything”, not just a hypothetical trip to New Zealand. Anyway, she said herself, they weren’t even happy she was working away from them in Chester so NZ was definitely out the question. LL fathers behaviour was also questionable at her grievance. One wonders if he actually knew any of the management.

He was also quite a lot older than her mother. That may or may not be an issue. Overall I just don’t feel sorry for them. If others do, that’s up to them.

But why are some sources saying it is 13 over 2 years? I thought her last year was 2016, that they were looking at a potential killing spree over the years 2015-2016?:

“Last November a report by the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health (RCPCH) found that staffing at the hospital’s neonatal unit, which reported a “higher than usual” number of baby deaths, was inadequate. Two babies died in the unit in 2013 and three died in 2014. In comparison, there were eight deaths in 2015 and five in 2016.” Source the Guardian article I linked previously. The initial investigation was also about a higher than average incidence of still births, which LL can’t have had anything to do with.

Also, this quite well known and respected statistician has got these figures from somewhere, which show deaths in the neonatal unit did not go down after she stopped working in the ward (in fact, the figures seem
to show they increased):
https://www.chimpinvestor.com/post/the-travesty-of-the-lucy-letby-verdicts

Can anyone with a better grasp of statistics than me she’s any light on this?

There is all this information too: https://rexvlucyletby2023.com/

about alternative explanations for the high incidence of deaths and flaws in the evidence. I have read it through once and it doesn’t seem like a silly conspiracy theory so far. I could be wrong though, and I hope I am, I just don’t feel easy about the verdict yet. Has anyone had a read any of this stuff?

Guilt is a VERY normal emotion in parent/child relationships.

We call it mum guilty when our kids are small. But then at some point, when the kids grow older, it often flips and children start to feel guilty. It's extremely normal and comes hand in hand with dependency which LOTS of family members feel.

I find all of the over-thinking about phrases quite worrying to be honest.

Of course her mum didnt think she was guilty. If she did, she wouldnt have said "that can't be right!".

And when LL said, "coming back with a bang", she probably didn't use that as a confessional to her colleague that she's going to start killing again. It's a VERY normal expression when you work somewhere busy.

And "they're not getting out there alive aren't they" about the third triplet. I really don't think that was a threat. I think it was a clumsy way of saying, if two of the three babies have died, are the odds that the third will?

I'm not saying she's innocent. I think I actually believe now she's guilty (I used to think innocent). But I really cringe when I see people use these everyday expressions to 'prove' she's a killer. They're evidence of nothing. Absolutely nothing.

The real evidence, I believe, is the fact that the deaths started and ended with her presence on the ward.

I agree, I'd be majorly upset if any of my children move to the other side of the world. Because I want to be active in their lives.

That doesn't make a parent overbearing or responsible for their child killing babies. It makes them pretty normal, perhaps a bit too open about their wants if anything, but hardly at fault and definitely not unusual.

Even if all nurses were allocated their own baby, wouldn't at some point the nurses themselves not have wanted to be on the same shift as Lucy?
Even if it was a superstitious she's a bloody jinx type of thinking?
Text messages are supportive on the surface but surely her nurse colleagues also had their suspicions even if they couldn't voice them?
(Caveat: not sure who these texts were from or nurses' testimony. Haven't done a deep dive. Only know parts of the case).

It sounds very odd and I would be complete opposite (about Letsby's desire to go straight back to nnu after first deaths)
I can't believe you were on again. You having such a tough time
There's something odd about that night and the other 3 that went so suddenly.
You've had some really tough times recently
you seem to be having some very bad luck

Not what I meant. I was responding to post which claimed that people of colour are discriminated against in the NHS, if you scroll back.
The poster said that because of discrimination, a health worker of colour would be investigated for incompetence sooner that a white worker.

@WhisperingHi

But they were still very upset at 100 miles, she said so herself. That’s very much putting your own needs above your adult childs I’m afraid. She was made to feel guilty for not returning home after Uni.

@WhisperingHi

Oh and I’m Letbys age. I NEVER feel guilty about my relationship with my mother. My parents have never made me feel guilty about my decisions in life. What an odd thing to say. Sounds like you sympathise with her parents because you’re just like them, in which case unlucky to your adult kids I guess. Believe me guilt is NOT normal when you’re an adult. 🚩

The only credible source you’ve quoted is the Guardian, who said ‘there were eight deaths in 2015 and five in 2016.’

The other two are just conspiracy theorists and not worth my time reading it.

You could read it and summarise key points here if you like.

Yep

I watched the Panaroma program last night, one bit showed a snippet about causes of death, two on the bit shown were 'expected', one baby had been deprived of oxygen and another had congenital abnormalities. The fact she was on shift at those points was simply a coincidence.

(Sorry, this is for those who have alluded to the other babies being proof of not of something)

@Theborder probably because 100miles is around what, 2-3 hours drive away I'm estimating? If so, that's a lot! Day trips are hard and they miss their only child.

It's completely understandable. I think the difficulty there is she's an only child so the responsibility is all on her. But these are NORMAL feelings. Most loving parents would like to be within easy distance to their child, I'd imagine. They clearly didn't stop her moving, as she did it. But to incinuate that they're unhappiness with it is somewhat unusual or is linked in someway to her killing babies is crazy to me.

To me, it sounds like their dynamics are pretty normal for an one-child household.

@CherryMaDeara how can you know they are conspiracy theorists if you don’t read them?

One of them is a very successful and well regarded statistician and the other sounds like an extremely thorough and well researched expert in paediatric disease. I could try and summarize tomorrow but I’m sleepy now.

Do you have a medical background @DahliaRedHead?

I think the defence were wasting everyone's time. They'd have been much better doing a bit of Internet research and sourcing their expert witnesses from there.
In fact, maybe we need to overhaul the whole justice system and just fire things we've found on the Internet at each other.

Overall I just don’t feel sorry for them. If others do, that’s up to them.
Early in my teacher-training, I remember we were all told that even on the worst day, after the worst lesson, with the worst-behaved child, to remember that that child - however they might have acted towards me - was somebody's son/daughter, somebody's brother/sister, somebody's grandchild who loved* them.
(*caveat - sadly, not always the case hence why they are acting out).
(**problem with caveat - parents often get blamed for poor nurture as opposed to the nature of their offspring).

I feel sorry for the parents of the babies first and foremost. I can empathise with the parents of all perpetrators, however, unless they are are found to have caused their child's sociopathy/criminality by neglect or abuse. There are many parents, however, who are also given a metaphorical life sentence, are suspected of things they haven't done, have to move, are subject to abuse, suspicion and blame, or (in the case of suicides) losing a child themselves. I wouldn't wish any of that on my worst enemy.

When Your Child Kills: The Parents of Criminals (thedailybeast.com)

After the killing: How parents of attackers cope - BBC News

@Theborder I'm 30, so no, not like them for another 20+years!

But as a mother and a child and having studied aspects of psychotherapy, I can say that guilt is normal in close family relationships. I'm not saying it's healthy or ideal, but it's absolutely normal and it doesn't lead to serial killer children.

I don't know why people would think them not wanting their only daughter to move to the other side of the world is in anyway significant or relavent to the case. It's normal for HCP to move to NZ to work for more income. It's normal for parents to not want their kids to move that far away. End of really.

How would you react to your daughter ( who you don't believe is a serial killer) is sentenced to life in prison? we don't know how we will react if we were in this situation.