Lucy Letby - new thread

[anonymousamy]

No idea why the last one was taken down, but for anyone who wants to continue the discussion on Letby, I’m starting a new thread here.

I’m 100% sure she’s guilty, but I’m still massively struggling to comprehend why on earth she did it.

I think the defence were wasting everyone's time. They'd have been much better doing a bit of Internet research and sourcing their expert witnesses from there.

Don't want to be a James Acaster, but playing devil's advocate, I'd have taken a punt on calling Richard Gill for the defence if I had nothing else!
Richard D. Gill - Wikipedia

yes, I think her workmates were suspicious too.

I assure you Richard Gill is not a conspiracy theorist. He's a respected Professor of Mathematics who's work freed a wrongly convicted nurse in Netherlands called Lucia de Berk. Meanwhile the Guardian is very much a newspaper looking for clicks.

I'm a university researcher who works with statistics. I started following the case liveblog in October out of nothing but morbid curiosity about a serial killer nurse and 10 months I am genuinely shaken about it. I can not stress enough that there is not one piece of direct evidence that links her to a single crime. The presented stats could be in a textbook about how to cherry pick data to reach the wrong conclusions. She was investigated by The Royal College of Paediatricians and Child Health who found she had done nothing wrong. Yet the judge felt that this is not something the jury should be allowed to be told for some reason best known to him.

No, but if you needed to have a medical background to make any kind of meaningful judgement when weighing up medical evidence from various experts, then the whole notion of trial by jury would be a complete waste of time anyway.

I have a friend who was very messed up by being a only child to , overly protective parents. The completely spoiled her rotten to the extent she really couldn't form relationships. She do really terrible things to ensure she was the centre of attention at school.She'd also go out of her way to punish her parents. She'd get drunk and go to sleep on their front lawn for example. She has had a lot of issues. Her parents are both lovely but they ruined her. She now punished them by not letting them se her or her kids.

I don't think any of this excuses or explains let you. Nor is this behaviour exclusively witnessed in only kids. But I think in certain circumstances it could contribute to some mental disorders. When you realise the only universe you are the centre of is your parents, the landing can be rough.

It has to be the most bizarre case in English legal history. Convicted for a whole life term without a shred of actual evidence for 7 baby deaths, when there were 13 other unexplained deaths that she could not have been responsible for. And no one can question this because ‘the jury decided’?

I don’t think she did it. I think she’s been stitched up.

@Exorex This is precisely the impression I have formed.

It is often reported that Myra Hindley's early life bore no hints of the dreadful crimes she would become culpable for. She was not in trouble at school or as an adolescent. Had a normal job and dated a young police officer or cadet.
It is even debatable how much Hindley was herself a victim of Brady- what we might call coercive control nowadays. He made her bleach her hair white blonde to fit with his abhorrent hero worship of the Nazis and dress a certain way. Most criminologists and criminal psychologists think that she'd have led a normal, mainstream life if she'd never met Brady.

It's wild isn't it.

One of the craziest parts to me is the plumber for the unit testified there was literal sewage on the floor coming from the sinks in one of the nurseries. Yet not once does anyone think to check these incredibly poorly infants for any sign of resulting infections. The report from the Royal College inspectors was damning about the hygiene of the ward. Yet once again, this is something the jury don't get to be privy to.

I can’t understand how she’d choose her victims. Why that specific little one?

Has she ever categorically denied the charges / protested her innocence other than pleading not guilty,?

I think it is likely that both Myra Hindley and Rose West would be sentenced differently now, given the modern understanding of coercive abuse etc. However that wouldn’t make them innocent. Maxine Carr is probably a realistic take on how they would be sentenced.

Letby is seemingly entirely different, particularly for operating alone under her own duress. Her actions are unfathomable to the average person and so people are clawing to find a reason for it, any reason.

It is often reported that Myra Hindley's early life bore no hints of the dreadful crimes she would become culpable for.

Actually, she had a violent father. She had an abusive upbringing.

Her remark about going to NZ was in passing (I noticed it because I live there.) It was clearly a light-hearted remark made in passing and is being taken way too seriously.

This talk of suffocating parents doesn't seem at all relevant.

@SemperIdem it's widely accepted that Rose West was as sadistic as Fred and probably more so.

Upthread I quoted a reddit user. Many of the babies already had a pre-existing condition/comorbidity/condition that potentially made them look more vulnerable so would cover her acts (less surprising if they took a turn for the worse, given most premmies would be expected to progress and go home).
Race didn't come into it (two babies were asian, rest ethnicity not mentioned).
Gender not an issue, although interestingly, she does seem to alternate between boys and girls pending success.

I can't actually believe that Rose West is being compared with Maxine Carr. Rose West was a sexual sadist.

Yes, she has categorically denied the charges and won a tribunal about them.

TL/DR "Not nice Lucy! part 35786445678546667775&.

very good podcast by Daily Mail - covered the whole trial and beyond, very intelligent but difficult to listen to for obvious reasons..

LL and parents were present for the initial guilty verdicts, which is where the mother’s outcry happened.

The details of the earlier sentencing were withheld from being reported (at the time) until the more recent verdicts, which they didn’t attend

earlier guilty *verdicts, sorry, obviously they were at the sentencing either

Again from reddit (thanks/credit to Fyrestar Omega)

That she was never caught mid-injection was a huge hurdle for some people, despite her having been

1. caught cotside at a collapse in a room she should not have been in (Child C)
2. across the room withholding care while alone with baby "screaming" with blood around his mouth (Child E)
3. desperately trying to settle another screaming baby just before her death (Child I)
4. (allegedly) withholding oxygen (Child K), and
5. (allegedly) rushing out of the room post injection of air/fluid (Child Q)

Original. But why let any actual science get in the way of a good story.

2 lied to E’s mother (who effectively caught her in the act) about doctor coming and falsified records to create a timeline that supported LL lies.

E’s mother has a clear recollection and her account of events and timeline was backed up by phone records and conversation with E’s father