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Original poster

Lucy Letby - new thread

1000 replies

anonymousamy · 21/08/2023 22:23

No idea why the last one was taken down, but for anyone who wants to continue the discussion on Letby, I’m starting a new thread here.

I’m 100% sure she’s guilty, but I’m still massively struggling to comprehend why on earth she did it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
38
Aliceteacup · 22/08/2023 18:46

yippyde · 21/08/2023 22:53

@TrippinEdBalls Thank you for explaining - that makes sense. So it's that even if the babies had been completely alone without anyone caring for them, the specific things that went wrong just wouldn't have happened. In that case I see then why the only explanation would have been her actually causing it.

Yes but the other thing people seem to be overlooking (of what I’ve read on these threads anyway) is the significance of the days these events happened.

So the attacks themselves are done in such a way that can only have happened at the hands of an adult human (rather than by chance/bad luck or even incompetence):

  • internal injuries so severe they’re normally seen on car crash victims (how would a neonatal baby self inflict that kind of injury, and how would someone being merely clumsy or incompetent accidentally do that kind of damage)
  • Insulin in the blood at such a level that would be impossible for the body to have self generated it (“the very top of the scale that the equipment was capable of measuring”)
  • blood and cuts around mouths of babies from trauma to the throat
  • air in the stomach from injection

Not only were the injuries and attacks so brutal it couldn’t have been natural, but they were repetitive and the same methods kept cropping up - more than one baby with insulin poisoning, more than one baby with air in the stomach, more than one baby with the same kind of response rash.

But above all of that, even if you try and pretend for a minute that all of the above is just coincidence / bad luck that it happened every time she was on shift - or even if you try and imagine she is merely being incompetent and clumsy rather than evil - it’s the calendar days themselves that had significance and meaning.

Babies being hurt and killed on their 100th days, their due dates, the days they were due to go home, twins and triplets being attacked on consecutive days. It’s all too orchestrated and calculated for it to have been random/just coincidence - these are deliberate attacks done in a way that only an adult human could enforce, done on days of significance rather than randomly occurring and the similar nature of the attacks. All done when the same nurse is on shift every single time. The evidence against her is so damning I don’t know why there is any confusion as to the severity of her sentence.

user9630721458 · 22/08/2023 19:01

voltacup · 22/08/2023 18:40

They are handover notes. Not patients notes. They are an brief overview of the patients in each bed on the ward at the time of handover, it is completely separate to patient notes, everything pertaining to a particular patient will still be recorded in their notes. Nurses will be allocated their patients but will still need an overview of everyone on the ward - the handover sheet is outdated by the time it gets to the end of that shift and therefore they are shredded. There will never be anything confidential on there, it'll be very basic information.

The handovers are typed and probably are saved on a daily basis.

Show quote history

Thank you for this. I can't imagine how an overview of each patient on the ward is not confidential. I suppose names are not used or something like that. I wouldn't want a piece of paper floating about with my name on it stating anything about my health. I am sure on a busy ward nurses do need some kind of list. I know it wouldn't have made much difference, but it makes me think there's a slightly chaotic approach to record keeping which might spread into the general running of hospitals. In turn, that may make things easier for someone like Letby to operate. I could be wrong. That isn't the fault of nurses, who I can see are run off their feet at my local hospital.

loyalist · 22/08/2023 19:04

the doubts keep coming.

gill1109.com/2023/05/24/the-lucy-letby-case/

Anotherchristianmama · 22/08/2023 19:06

DaphneDeloresMoreheadRidesOn · 22/08/2023 18:41

Also RW had been severely physically and sexually abused by her father growing up. Her mum had ECT while pregnant with her. She had no concept of normal relationships.
im not excusing her but her experience of life was sharply different to the easy, middle class life of LL

Show quote history

Sexual abuse happens in middle class families too.

Elvera2 · 22/08/2023 19:07

Theborder · 22/08/2023 18:45

@DaphneDeloresMoreheadRidesOn

How do you know LL wasn’t sexually abused by her father though? I am still amazed people are fooled by such outward MC upbringing’s. We have no idea really what was endured in her formative years. Who fucking knows. We can’t just assume it was all normal though.

I must admit that this went through my mind as well. We wouldn't necessarily know this sort of thing would we?

I thought of Daisy Randone. 'My father loves me'.

Elvera2 · 22/08/2023 19:09

Yes there is a well known MNer who comes from a well to do family who has talked about her abuse by an 'upstanding' member of the upper middle class community she lived in.

Riiiiighty · 22/08/2023 19:14

Commissioned ‘independently’ by the same organisations expecting the usual- a ‘white wash’- the name is sooooo apt! And then BOOM, they get someone with integrity and tell them their organisation and managers are racist. next, managers take ‘fake action to change ’ which means nothing in actual practice- write meaningless reports on diversity you think they are mentally ill they could kiss any random black kid if they saw one lol lol ( I am not even talking about the pol!ce here who are a broken record- think a bit deeper will you?! Lol)

Deal.with.it. I say!

GotMooMilk · 22/08/2023 19:27

Obviously 99% of my sympathy is for the poor families affected- I can’t imagine the pain of knowing your precious newborn was murdered. But 1% I do feel so horribly sad for her parents who appear to be decent normal people. They must be beyond devastated and mortified. All her colleague and friends must feel fools and be so upset. Just wave upon wave of hurt and pain that will last forever. The victim impact statements bought tears to my eyes. I hope she doesn’t kill herself and lives a long life in prison.

my82my · 22/08/2023 19:33

I do agree that she just totally did not look like a killer, particularly a serial killer, particularly a serial killer of innocent babies.

What does a serial killer of innocent babies look like? I do not know, but I just feel they don't look like her. She looks just so like ... butter wouldn't melt in her mouth...... (Well she did before she was arrested!) It's just so weird. You would never know that she was a vicious maniacal murderer of babies.

@WibblyWobblyTimeyWimeyStuff

Rose West looked like your average dinner lady.

Ian Huntley looked like the caretaker he was.

That's what is so scary about these people.. they look like everyone else.

I do think when you look at pictures of Fred West and Myra Hindley you can see the evil behind their eyes but maybe that's because I know about their crimes.

x2boys · 22/08/2023 19:34

GotMooMilk · 22/08/2023 19:27

Obviously 99% of my sympathy is for the poor families affected- I can’t imagine the pain of knowing your precious newborn was murdered. But 1% I do feel so horribly sad for her parents who appear to be decent normal people. They must be beyond devastated and mortified. All her colleague and friends must feel fools and be so upset. Just wave upon wave of hurt and pain that will last forever. The victim impact statements bought tears to my eyes. I hope she doesn’t kill herself and lives a long life in prison.

Yes I feel.sorry for her parents its unimaginable what they are going thorough ,as a parent you love your child unconditionally., how would you Gey your head around the fact they have committed such heinous crimes and will.never have another day of freedom?

Lwrenagain · 22/08/2023 19:37

@Riiiiighty you quoted me but either yours or my comment has been deleted so I can't reply

IVbumble · 22/08/2023 19:38

There's a lot on this thread about how we couldn't believe what she did because she didn't look like the sort of person that might do what she did. I wonder if we have formed opinions on how bad people look from 'bad' people we see portrayed in movies. So we all might have a skewed opinion on what good or bad people look like.

OvaHere · 22/08/2023 19:42

WhisperingHi · 22/08/2023 17:40

@Orangebadger but isn't it strange that people only started thinking she was "off" in her mid-20s? Wouldn't former teachers, past peers and friends, distant family be coming forwards to say how controlling/manipulative/strange/psychopathic she was/is?

This is the strangest thing for me. Not her appearance or that she's young and female.

I watched an old Allitt documentary on youtube, which I suppose is the case that bears most similarity, I was a teen in 91 and didn't remember a lot about that case.

Even with Allitt there were signs - she self harmed for sympathy, was known to get violent even beating up a boyfriend at one point. She had a longstanding reputation with friends and family for telling lies. Even after she was first questioned and removed from the hospital her compulsion was such that she poisoned the dog and the son of a friend who was letting her stay with them.

I once worked with a woman years ago who was charming, sociable, fun but seriously 'off' and that became apparent quite quickly. She was sacked for some dodgy stuff (nothing as bad as murder) and eventually word got back this was a repeated pattern wherever she went. She could maintain a facade for a short while but it didn't last.

I am baffled that there were no signs with Letby and I don't think being an only child, chintzy bedroom decor or doting parents really count as real signs.

Things I would expect to hear about are other smaller scale deceptions and lies. Other more minor manipulations and cruelty towards others going back to her teens as a minimum.

In the period between her suspension and arrest (2 years I think) did she just stop all compulsion to cause harm? Allit didn't hence her going after the people she was staying with. If what Letby did is compulsive how did she just stop? Can she switch it on and off? What did she direct the dark behaviour towards for those 2 years?

It is a rather terrifying notion because perhaps there are individuals out there that are even better at the appearance of 'normality' than she was and will never be caught.

CherryMaDeara · 22/08/2023 19:45

GotMooMilk · 22/08/2023 19:27

Obviously 99% of my sympathy is for the poor families affected- I can’t imagine the pain of knowing your precious newborn was murdered. But 1% I do feel so horribly sad for her parents who appear to be decent normal people. They must be beyond devastated and mortified. All her colleague and friends must feel fools and be so upset. Just wave upon wave of hurt and pain that will last forever. The victim impact statements bought tears to my eyes. I hope she doesn’t kill herself and lives a long life in prison.

I don’t know, I’m reserving judgement on the parents.

Lucy thrives on drama and her mother showed a bit of drama when Lucy was arrested, crying ‘I did it, take me instead.’

The parents have seen months of evidence and have responded by mouthing ‘I love you’ at Lucy. They’re possibly in denial but it’s possible they know she did these heinous things.

Theborder · 22/08/2023 19:47

Plus in a FB Mr Men meme, LL was labelled as “Miss Innocent” by her friends long before any of this happened. It was clearly a persona she adopted with such exquisite accuracy. A very convincing mask.

Theborder · 22/08/2023 19:49

@CherryMaDeara

It is odd. It would be hard to accept as a parent but any normal, logical parent would have to accept that their child had done this. I wouldn’t stand by my adult child in this scenario. Easy for me to say I know, but this is exceptional.

Poudretteite · 22/08/2023 19:49

OvaHere · 22/08/2023 19:42

This is the strangest thing for me. Not her appearance or that she's young and female.

I watched an old Allitt documentary on youtube, which I suppose is the case that bears most similarity, I was a teen in 91 and didn't remember a lot about that case.

Even with Allitt there were signs - she self harmed for sympathy, was known to get violent even beating up a boyfriend at one point. She had a longstanding reputation with friends and family for telling lies. Even after she was first questioned and removed from the hospital her compulsion was such that she poisoned the dog and the son of a friend who was letting her stay with them.

I once worked with a woman years ago who was charming, sociable, fun but seriously 'off' and that became apparent quite quickly. She was sacked for some dodgy stuff (nothing as bad as murder) and eventually word got back this was a repeated pattern wherever she went. She could maintain a facade for a short while but it didn't last.

I am baffled that there were no signs with Letby and I don't think being an only child, chintzy bedroom decor or doting parents really count as real signs.

Things I would expect to hear about are other smaller scale deceptions and lies. Other more minor manipulations and cruelty towards others going back to her teens as a minimum.

In the period between her suspension and arrest (2 years I think) did she just stop all compulsion to cause harm? Allit didn't hence her going after the people she was staying with. If what Letby did is compulsive how did she just stop? Can she switch it on and off? What did she direct the dark behaviour towards for those 2 years?

It is a rather terrifying notion because perhaps there are individuals out there that are even better at the appearance of 'normality' than she was and will never be caught.

Show quote history

I suppose it makes a bit more sense if you look at it through the lens of MBP which has been suggested.

Many of these patients are 'normal,' intelligent, take pride in their medical knowledge, extremely polite and helpful.

Even then though I agree, it's hard to believe nothing was off. Childhood friends, supportive parents, stable education and work record. Not a thing to make you pause.

CherryMaDeara · 22/08/2023 19:51

OvaHere · 22/08/2023 19:42

This is the strangest thing for me. Not her appearance or that she's young and female.

I watched an old Allitt documentary on youtube, which I suppose is the case that bears most similarity, I was a teen in 91 and didn't remember a lot about that case.

Even with Allitt there were signs - she self harmed for sympathy, was known to get violent even beating up a boyfriend at one point. She had a longstanding reputation with friends and family for telling lies. Even after she was first questioned and removed from the hospital her compulsion was such that she poisoned the dog and the son of a friend who was letting her stay with them.

I once worked with a woman years ago who was charming, sociable, fun but seriously 'off' and that became apparent quite quickly. She was sacked for some dodgy stuff (nothing as bad as murder) and eventually word got back this was a repeated pattern wherever she went. She could maintain a facade for a short while but it didn't last.

I am baffled that there were no signs with Letby and I don't think being an only child, chintzy bedroom decor or doting parents really count as real signs.

Things I would expect to hear about are other smaller scale deceptions and lies. Other more minor manipulations and cruelty towards others going back to her teens as a minimum.

In the period between her suspension and arrest (2 years I think) did she just stop all compulsion to cause harm? Allit didn't hence her going after the people she was staying with. If what Letby did is compulsive how did she just stop? Can she switch it on and off? What did she direct the dark behaviour towards for those 2 years?

It is a rather terrifying notion because perhaps there are individuals out there that are even better at the appearance of 'normality' than she was and will never be caught.

Show quote history

I read that narcissists / psychopaths can easily compartmentalise their lives.

For Letby, killing was probably something she did within confined limits (I.e. within the neonatal unit, and only by certain methods - insulin, air, milk and throat trauma). She could justify these afterwards because she helped with the resuscitations.

Anything apart from this (like blunt force) she probably thought of as naughty or too evil.

OvaHere · 22/08/2023 19:59

CherryMaDeara · 22/08/2023 19:51

I read that narcissists / psychopaths can easily compartmentalise their lives.

For Letby, killing was probably something she did within confined limits (I.e. within the neonatal unit, and only by certain methods - insulin, air, milk and throat trauma). She could justify these afterwards because she helped with the resuscitations.

Anything apart from this (like blunt force) she probably thought of as naughty or too evil.

Show quote history

Possibly true, much of it does point to an ability to compartmentalise far beyond what most people could do..

It's a little bit like the plot of Dexter isn't it? A psychopath who draws their own moral framework of acceptable (to them) and unacceptable evils.

Pure speculation obvs because I don't actually know she operates in this way.

Riiiiighty · 22/08/2023 19:59

Oh, and now I know why they arrested her and released her first time around. Mainly so that the pol!ce could carry out the searches of her house and parents’ ASAP and as part of the initial ‘stabbing in the dark stage’ without bothering with applying for a warrant when they had little evidence to go under. Yes, also why she wasn’t charge.
They CAN even arrest someone just to keep them in jail with something minor whilst investigating the big thing. Those managers could learn a thing or 2 of using tactics which are legitimate whilst still unsure and should have kept the killer LL away SOONER!!!

bluegreenandcoral · 22/08/2023 20:00

Theborder · 22/08/2023 19:49

@CherryMaDeara

It is odd. It would be hard to accept as a parent but any normal, logical parent would have to accept that their child had done this. I wouldn’t stand by my adult child in this scenario. Easy for me to say I know, but this is exceptional.

I don’t think I’d stand by them in the sense that I’d publicly claim they were innocent, but I also don’t think I could cut them out of my life. I think I would still visit them in prison. But who knows and I pray to god I never ever have to find out.

I can’t help but feel sorry for her parents, I know they’re not victims in the same way as the parents of the babies who were attacked but I do feel so awful for them. Their lives are destroyed and yet eight years ago they probably felt so lucky and like they had it all.

Interestingly it seems her best friend is still publicly saying she believes Letby is innocent. It’s such a strange case. Did anyone ever stand by other serial killers like Myra Hindley and Rose West in this way? I know that nobody was that surprised by Joanna Dennehy…

WhisperingHi · 22/08/2023 20:03

@OvaHere I personally don't think the signs lead to a psychopath. I think she's insecure and bitter and in the moment, used her position and the babies to alleviate some of her pain. She didn't like to see happiness around her and attention given to others. So she would sabotage milestones for families and would harm babies to bring the parents moods back down.

I don't think she'd have been as bothered in the time between arrests. Others happiness wasn't playing out in front of her. She didn't have enough exposure to families to feel those intense feelings of jealousy. But most importantly she didn't have the opportunity.

What did she do in that time? Did she mope around? Study? Work? Does anyone know?

GotMooMilk · 22/08/2023 20:04

@bluegreenandcoral i agree it’s so complex. Her behaviour is so abhorrent but appears to at odds with their perfect daughter they’ve always been proud of. I’m sure a degree of cognitive dissonance and believing she’s wrongly convicted and couldn’t possibly have done that would apply.

x2boys · 22/08/2023 20:04

CherryMaDeara · 22/08/2023 19:45

I don’t know, I’m reserving judgement on the parents.

Lucy thrives on drama and her mother showed a bit of drama when Lucy was arrested, crying ‘I did it, take me instead.’

The parents have seen months of evidence and have responded by mouthing ‘I love you’ at Lucy. They’re possibly in denial but it’s possible they know she did these heinous things.

Show quote history

As a,parent and I'm absolutely not condoning what she did you want to make it better for your child
When my son wss critically ill I really wished it was me in his position not him.,her parents must be distraught I'm sure they do still.love her as these threads show its hard enough sometimes for the general public who dont know and love her to accept she's done it inspite of the overwhelming evidence

x2boys · 22/08/2023 20:09

Theborder · 22/08/2023 19:49

@CherryMaDeara

It is odd. It would be hard to accept as a parent but any normal, logical parent would have to accept that their child had done this. I wouldn’t stand by my adult child in this scenario. Easy for me to say I know, but this is exceptional.

Im.not sure I could ever turn my back.on.my child
Regardless of what they had done it must be so hard.

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