Lucy Letby - new thread

[anonymousamy]

No idea why the last one was taken down, but for anyone who wants to continue the discussion on Letby, I’m starting a new thread here.

I’m 100% sure she’s guilty, but I’m still massively struggling to comprehend why on earth she did it.

@WhisperingHi the more I read about psychopaths, the more I think she is one. They are the classic wolf in sheep's clothing. Very very good at manipulating and lying and just been very regular people on the surface. That is what makes them so dangerous as people trust them. The Yorkshire ripper was very charming and well liked. But if she's not a psychopath, she certainly has psychopathic traits, the absolute lack of remorse, clearly no empathy, but was very good at pretending she had some. But I court the only tears shed were about herself and her life, not the babies or their families.

Totally agree with you yippydee

@Xeren

I have met types like her at work for sure. Fucking smiling assassins. Covertly very narcissistic but they play it well and people fall for it. Generally I don’t think people are overly smart in that sense. I have someone on my FB who people have fawned over for years. Like butter wouldn’t melt. Always helping people, donating to charities, absolute Samaritan.

Just been done for some very dodgy pursuits and people are shocked and I’m like was I the only fucking person who knew this woman was a dark horse. Honestly, I can spot them a mile off but then I’m certain my own father was sociopathic (or at the very least incredibly narcissistic). My radar for wolfs in sheep’s clothing is bang on. Now I’m not saying I would have called out LL, but Nar I’m definitely not shocked.

I can’t believe Beverly A was 30 years ago.

It's ignorant and pathetic. Truth is none of us know about her upbringing aside from some stuff the media has largely assumed and from messages LL sent to others (hardly a reliable source). People suggesting as she was an only child she must have been stifled and a response to this was killing babies is genuinely insane.

Did you miss the part where I said that a) I MYSELF am an only child, and this level of overprotectiveness is absolutely NOT normal for us, nor that "she's weird because she's an only child. We aren't weird at all, that's not the point of what I said. Odd defensive interpretations here.

b) She HERSELF said her parents were stifling and they obviously are, from all the evidence of their behaviour rin the public eye. It has a massive impact on the psychology of ANY child if their parents are overbearing like this. Do you think it's "normal" to not be able to be apart from your adult child, to freak if they don't live close by, to scream "it's not true, take me!" when their child is arrested.

c) Her friend said that Letby had always wanted to work as a neonatal worse with very sick babies because she herself had been one

These aren't "assumptions" and it's not "insane" - they are based on what is known about the case.

We are trying to understand why the disconnect and the psychology here.

Who is behind that "Science on Trial" website, does anyone know?

I thought handover notes would be kept as a record of the patient's condition and care? Are they kept for any length of time? In care homes handover notes are usually part of a daily record kept about each resident and can be important in tracking any deterioration in health. Obviously care homes are quite different, but I would have thought hospitals would want some sort of record to refer to concerning the patient's status and care over time?

You beat me to it, theDudesmummy - I was about to ask the same!!

But there are probably hundreds of thousands of cosseted only children out there, and these two things are not synonymous. Very very very few of them turn out to be serial killers, as far as I’m aware there’s nothing out there to say onlys are more likely to be killers.

We can rake over the minutiae and human quirks of her upbringing all we like, but the fact is we won’t be able to pinpoint why she did this or what caused it. Likely nothing did. Maybe it’s like cancer, one day something in her mind snapped or a strange thought mutation occurred and it just went from there.

But all this ‘cuddly toy, only child, oooooh the signs were there’ stuff is a load of guff. And unfairly points the finger at her parents, who may have been a little overprotective but that is so far away from the worst parenting crimes that it’s barely worth mentioning.

A handover sheet is an overview of patients on the ward and their current status etc, ward staff generally carry it in their pocket while on duty and then shred it when they clock off. It's not the same as a patient's medical notes.

@Orangebadger but isn't it strange that people only started thinking she was "off" in her mid-20s? Wouldn't former teachers, past peers and friends, distant family be coming forwards to say how controlling/manipulative/strange/psychopathic she was/is?

People are saying this quote should be pinned, but immediately I see there are false statements. There was 13 deaths over 2 years, not 1. There are problems with the other points too, which I will address, if I get the chance later.

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/18/police-investigating-baby-deaths-at-countess-of-chester-hospital

FFS Jamtartforme of course I don't consider being an only child to be synonymous with turning out to be a killer. As I said, I am one (an only child, not a killer!).

But of course it's not "guff" to be picking up on odd family dynamics - and they ARE odd and noticeable in this particular case. Calling me names like "ignorant and pathetic" when I am absolutely neither is completely out of line.

I see, many thanks. I suppose a handover sheet lists tasks that need to be done for each patient, how they are at time of handover and any interactions, for instance? Is this all then copied again to the medical notes by nurses as well as them completing medical notes at each handover? I am just wondering if nurses make a record of all interactions and conversations with patients somewhere, so there is a continuous and complete record.

So sorry I didn’t mean to imply you thought that, I was just leading on from what you were saying.

@Theborder ”smiling assassins”
is the perfect description!

Yes I do think that's strange - I commented on this either upthread or on the other thread that got deleted. In most cases this is exactly what happens. The media can always eg find someone who disliked you at primary school.

The fact that you eg threw something across the classroom and it hit someone in the face will be evidence that you were always fated to be a murderer. Lets face it, even the nicest people usually have at least one teacher or a classmate who doesn't like them.

When did I call anyone ignorant or pathetic?!

Am I the only person who’s not shocked by Lucy Letby?

Yes, her crimes are shocking. Her job as a Nurse and how she used to access vulnerable babies is also shocking.

But someone like her, who looks like her from a background like her’s, committing these crimes is just not shocking to me.

I'm shocked by her behaviour and her crimes; I'm not shocked that someone who looks like her is any more capable of crimes that anyone else, no. We're conditioned to believe that certain people are "above" such things, or that baddies must "look like monsters" in some way. The scary truth is that they usually seem pretty much like everyone else.

But of course it's not "guff" to be picking up on odd family dynamics - and they ARE odd and noticeable in this particular case

Far less noticeable than many families I know including my own. They’re the things you’d comment on if forced to notice something but still quite ordinary

@WhisperingHi

They might well start to reflect now. My best friend at school has lived quite a dark life (we are in our mid 30s now and haven’t spoken for years and years). I understand now that many of her “nice” behaviours were simply manipulation.

Also certain personalities will only hang around with certain people, usually kind types they can extract things from. Also people who are quite naive. If you’ve got a good psychopathic radar you tend to repel them, they instinctively know you’re not a “feed” for them. Rambling now but it’s all quite complex. It’s definitely possible for them to slip under the radar.

It's correct that there were 13 deaths during Lucy Letby's last year on the unit. That was revealed on Panorama. She was on duty for each of those deaths.

You didn't, that was another poster, clearly, sorry. Who did indeed say that. It was rude and uncalled for.

Over protective parents sometimes are that way due to a sense the child just needs that but more looking after - a sense something isn’t quite right - a sense of something they just can’t quite define. Obviously, not always and definitely not a sense specifically they may be a serial killer. But it’s impossible to know the actual family dynamics and impossible anyway to lay an interpretation on how they could have impacted on Lucy.

Think we just have to accept we’ll never know the reasons for Lucy and her actions. Hopefully though we can at least learn how to prevent such a thing happening again.

@DTCM you are wrong. LBC is awash with ethnic mothers giving evidence of discrimination towards them in maternity wards in U.K. as they are considered as stronger and can withstand pain- wow precious whites cannot similarly withstand pain!!? So black babies wouldn’t have raised this high alarm- as those in the know in hospital settings say.