Lucy Letby - new thread

[anonymousamy]

No idea why the last one was taken down, but for anyone who wants to continue the discussion on Letby, I’m starting a new thread here.

I’m 100% sure she’s guilty, but I’m still massively struggling to comprehend why on earth she did it.

I asked this on the other thread and don’t know if anyone answered before the thread was deleted - what happened to Letby between her last shift in the neonatal unit and her first arrest a couple of years later? Was she fired or suspended from CoC, or did she continue to work in Patient Safety (!!!) or othr admin? She was clearly suspended by the NMC (going by yesterday’s statement), but when?

I’ve seen nothing written anywhere about her employment or otherwise in the 4 years between her last attack and her final arrest/being charged with the murders.

I read somewhere that she worked in a clerical/admin role until her 2018 arrest. I thought it was patient experience first and then risk.

Bing tells me she was suspended on full pay from July 2018 when arrested and sacked November 2020 when charged.

This.

@x2boys I can't speak for other wards but particularly on our unit (level 3) the hierarchy isn't there if I'm honest, the consultants are led by us nurses as we are the ones next to the incubator for 12/13 hours at a time so we know the babies better, but then we have a great multidisciplinary team on our unit, it may not be the same elsewhere I'm sure

What wss she sacked for incompetence ?

Seconded to Risk and Patient Safety August 2016.

Union involved Sept 2016.
Apology given to Letby December 2016.
Board hears reviews/consultants warned off for last time Jan 2017.
Letter of apology Feb 2017
Mediation March 2017

No idea if she was there doing admin right up until July 2018 but wasn't she due to return to wards May 2017 which is when the police were brought in?

Think you’re a year out with your timeline - her last attack was June 2016.

I worked in adult ICU and it was the most egalitarian place I ever worked, where doctors and nurses and AHPs all had respect for each other’s skills and experience. We all learned from each other and the nurses were generally doing a lot of the teaching of junior doctors. Best team I ever worked in.

@Mustardseed86 the angle of racism isn't about the babies, it's that it wouldn't have taken 7 murders of vulnerable but stable babies and a further 6 more attempts to kill if LL wasn't white mc. Remember it has taken 7 murders and 6 attempted kills, many consultant warnings before the bosses took their fingers out their asses to investigate. If the profile was different of the killer, some of these babies will be at school today and that's all I'm saying.

@MavisMcMinty @skinnytobe same here from my time in A&E. Very strong MDT approach with a lot of mutual respect. Started in A&E 18 yrs ago and has always been like that.

Perhaps I've got this wrong but in the end I think (am I correct) it was the hospital who called in the police? If I'm right I can't understand why the consultants didn't do that way back. Have I got this wrong?

This podcast is really interesting if anyone wants to understand the case more fully. It follows the full trial week by week.

I realise it is by mail journalists but it is not sensationalised at all (as it follows a live trial it has to follow the rules of court reporting)
https://open.spotify.com/episode/0SUMovRNWVIJ0O8OSJt1u7?si=aM-9XcdySoiMaATgtPZgpg

Because despite the fact that pretty much every single female serial killer (and male, for that matter) in the UK is white, racism has to be the reason that none of them were caught sooner. Because in the middle of horror / trauma / disbelief and psychopathy, it's race that we should all be thinking about right now.

Race in how healthcare staff are treated is relevant in this case though, I expect those who can't comprehend it haven't worked in healthcare or aren't one of the groups disproportionately targeted.

So it's a race issue because being white, she wasn't subject to racist attitudes? I mean obviously I agree with that. If you want to have a conversation about racial bias fair enough, but it seems odd to bring it into a crime committed by a white woman in a white-majority country and say she got away with it because she's not black, Asian or another ethnic minority. If this was about a BAME person (sorry I know the abbreviation is a bit crap) then we would be able to have a discussion about how they were treated. It would make more sense to say racism wasn't a factor because Letby is white. In which case surely it's more relevant to then speak about racism as it does impact BAME people and use specific examples of that IYSWIM. But we can't do that here in particular because, thank God, this is a very unique case.

As for what accounts for the level of negligence from hospital managemen, there are other factors at play which IMO all come under the heading of arse-covering. Remember all of the deaths were initially categorised as natural causes. The correlation absolutely should have been enough to ring alarm bells and get her taken off sooner. But their argument at the time was that there was no evidence of foul play and no evidence against Letby specifically either. So they didn't want to put themselves in a position to be sued.

Yes the hospital finally contacted the police I think. The consultants were basically told it was nothing to do with her and calling the police would damage the rep of the hospital. They were then accused of bullying her, had to write a letter, threatened with GMC etc.

What I want to know is where is Lucy letbys line manager, who would be the matron of NICU. I have been a nurse for over 2 decades and have seen consultants have concerns with various nurses practice, their first point would typically be the matron. But also I don't actually think they initially thought there was a murderer. They may say this with the benefit of hindsight and a conviction but from following the podcast they just thought there was a link with LL and the first 3/4 babies. Now most clinicians would be looking at incompetence not murder. But I have no idea where LLs line manager is in all of this. I've not seen them mentioned at all.

So you think she would've been caught quicker if she was a poc, except she wasn't, and so we'll never know. Honestly trying to shoehorn in some whataboutery racism into this case is bizarre.

Am I the only person who’s not shocked by Lucy Letby?

Yes, her crimes are shocking. Her job as a Nurse and how she used to access vulnerable babies is also shocking.

But someone like her, who looks like her from a background like her’s, committing these crimes is just not shocking to me.

She’s young, slim, blonde, relatively attractive, in a caring profession from a ‘decent’ background. But to me she just looks like a grown arse woman, not some angle saint.

One of the Doctors who complained about her said she in turn raised a grievance against her detractors and then had the audacity to come back from office duty to prove her them wrong. They even had to apologise to her.

That doesn’t come across as some meek little mouse, who got a mouth that butter wouldn’t melt. That is someone who is very confident, self-assured, arrogant and manipulative - yes, you suspect me of murdering babies but I’m going to kick up a fuss, make you apologise and force you to work with me whether you like it or not!

I’m not shocked by her because I know plenty of women who look like her, behave like her and from similar backgrounds who can be right arseholes (especially when you’re not charmed by them). And when all else fails they’ll then on the waterworks and monster you.

This case has been fascinating in terms of bias.

Has everyone with doubts about the strength of the evidence had a good look at this website:

Science on Trial, by a scientist whose expertise is in paediatrician disease.

https://rexvlucyletby2023.com/

I agree. I'd have imagined choosing milestones, that parents and staff would be celebrating, would be more about pissing on people's parades, rather than creating a hero worship situation.

I think she must have felt very bitter and jealous. Perhaps she chose families who she felt was getting more attention. And she didn't like it. She wanted to see people worrying and sad, not celebrating. So she'd sabotage them. Perhaps families with babies with complex needs and multiples generally got more attention on the wards.

I don't think she's a psychopath. I think there'd have been signs before by people who have known her. I think instead, underneath her happy facade, she was a really unhappy person, punishing others who dare feel happy. She realised it made her feel good to take out her distress on other people and she realised she could get away with it.

It does seem strange. The logic is "if only there'd been some racism, lives could have been saved."

I’m really sick of the newspapers plastering smiley social media pics of her, especially in her Nurse uniform holding babies. I know it’s all to ‘shock’ readers but it feels so sensational and gross.

They seem to be running two simultaneous stories about her. One, the bubbly, salsa dancing, social butterfly with lots of good mates. The other, a lonely, stifled only child dominated by her parents.

She’s in jail - good riddance.

The media should really investigate the systems in structures that allowed this in the first place and name and shame the senior management who protected and enabled her.

They should face consequences for their actions too.

Don't you sound smug and superior and just plain wrong. Not everyone is white on the thread, and it's really not to do with that.