Page 15 | Lucy Letby - new thread

anonymousamy · 2023-08-21T21:23:22+00:00

No idea why the last one was taken down, but for anyone who wants to continue the discussion on Letby, I’m starting a new thread here. I’m 100% sure she’s guilty, but I’m still massively struggling to comprehend why on earth she did it.

meercat23 · 22/08/2023 11:44

Many years back I worked with a Faculty of Nursing in setting up what were then the new Nursing degrees. There was much talk back then about the fact that Consultants had too much power and nurses were not being listened to. From what has been reported in this case it appears that, in this hospital at leas, t the pendulum has swung very far in the other direction. It seems common sense to me that a senior management team should include those from a nursing background AND those from other clinical backgrounds including doctors.

Orangebadger · 22/08/2023 11:45

@Gladitscloudytoday she's not mentally ill. She's potentially a psychopath or has psychopathic traits which are not considered to be a mental illness. Psychopaths walk amongst is very easily as they can be very charming and very "normal" someone with a mental illness that would lead to this would display other concerning behaviours and not be so easy to slip under the radar. She has potentially been harming babies since she qualified with no sniff of suspicion. We'll see what the other investigations into other babies she had involvement in brings out.

ASDMumof2 · 22/08/2023 11:47

This reply has been deleted

We're sorry, but this user is a previously banned troll. We've removed all their threads and posts as we don't like to give them the airtime.

Munchausens is a subset of the diagnosis psychopath.

So, if she has Munchausens which is yet to be confirmed cos she never tried to help the babies, she is a psycopath.

My opinion is that she is a straight psychopath - we need the brain scans to confirm this.

IfICantHaveYou · 22/08/2023 11:49

Why are they only starting to investigate further back, just now?

Why was that not part of initial investigation....it's been years since first arrest

Riiiiighty · 22/08/2023 11:52

bellac11 · 21/08/2023 23:24

Were all the other consultants not white then?

She wasnt stopped because people were persuaded/bullied by her, she threatened to report people to the GMC and apparently was friends with one of the managers. She seems to have had some influence. She said she was being bullied. If she was black, she would have said she was being racially bullied on top and people wouldnt have taken it any further either.

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Bollocks! If she was black they would have not hesitated to take even the less invasive action- paid leave etc just to enforce her absence, KNOWING full well, any grievance matter the black may bring will be AUTOMATICALLY in support of the managers. Wake up and live in the real world. So no concerns about what the black nurse might do as the system is set up to disagree. As we now know, THAT would have at least SAVED the deaths of more babies, whether the black nurse was innocent or not AS THERE IS CLEAR EVIDENCE, babies do not die or attempt to die WHEN LUCY was NOT there and that evidence was always KNOWN by the managers through the consultants.

I do agree that all consultants were not listened to and majority were white because the hospital closed rank on Lucy- mainly because she is white and managed to get close to those with power in a way no black nurse would. Yes, it is already confirmed she was manipulative and calculating, but the managers ALLOWED themselves to be manipulated. She was even a poster nurse on some charity- the ONLY nurse present and chosen by the WHOLE hospital- it's on Daily Mail.

x2boys · 22/08/2023 11:55

Orangebadger · 22/08/2023 11:37

They should have been taken seriously and is absolutely something that needs addressing and in my opinion changing. Consultants nowadays have such little autonomy about departments that they are clinically responsible for. It's very messed up. But from what I can see senior management thought that they were bullying LL so that's the stance they took. When the medical director handed over his position to the next medical director his last leaving comment on the handover to the new director was that all 7 paediatricians needed reporting to the GMC!!

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So.strange when I was a mental health nurse.so.although its a very different role if 7 consultants were questioning a nurse's practice and very concerned for patient safety i really cant imagine the manager's i hsd ignoring ,at the very least the nurse would be being monitored .

Riiiiighty · 22/08/2023 11:56

Or move black nurse immediately ( on first day first consultant complains!!!) to an admin job saying it is TEMPORARY and leave her there FOREVER!

drpet49 · 22/08/2023 11:56

x2boys · 22/08/2023 11:32

I can't understand why the managers protected her over the consultant pediatricians,I mean yes she was a highly trained nurse but in terms of authority she was lows down in the pecking order I would gave thought paediatricians,concerns would have been taken far more seriously.

This is what I don’t understand either. And the role her parents played in all this. Her father writing a letter to the board. Appearing at a work tribunal. All very odd.

bluegreenandcoral · 22/08/2023 11:56

Riiiiighty · 22/08/2023 11:52

Bollocks! If she was black they would have not hesitated to take even the less invasive action- paid leave etc just to enforce her absence, KNOWING full well, any grievance matter the black may bring will be AUTOMATICALLY in support of the managers. Wake up and live in the real world. So no concerns about what the black nurse might do as the system is set up to disagree. As we now know, THAT would have at least SAVED the deaths of more babies, whether the black nurse was innocent or not AS THERE IS CLEAR EVIDENCE, babies do not die or attempt to die WHEN LUCY was NOT there and that evidence was always KNOWN by the managers through the consultants.

I do agree that all consultants were not listened to and majority were white because the hospital closed rank on Lucy- mainly because she is white and managed to get close to those with power in a way no black nurse would. Yes, it is already confirmed she was manipulative and calculating, but the managers ALLOWED themselves to be manipulated. She was even a poster nurse on some charity- the ONLY nurse present and chosen by the WHOLE hospital- it's on Daily Mail.

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They didn’t close rank “maybe because she is white”. Not saying it wasn’t a factor (one of many) but I don’t understand why you’re trying to make this all about race.

Theborder · 22/08/2023 11:57

@x2boys

Two of the managers were actually nurses themselves. They were very “pro-nurse”. One even said to a consultant that it was “convenient” to blame the nurse.

Efacsen · 22/08/2023 11:57

IfICantHaveYou · 22/08/2023 11:49

Why are they only starting to investigate further back, just now?

Why was that not part of initial investigation....it's been years since first arrest

@IfICantHaveYou IDK but the parents of the babies in the recent court case were quite a powerful and vociferous local pressure group seeking the police becoming involved - my guess would be that these known cases would be prioritised before looking for others

Riiiiighty · 22/08/2023 12:00

I am NOT making it about race- I would be stupid to, by race WAS A KEY FACTOR WHY NO ACTION WAS TAKEN EARLY ENOUGH.

It is accepted some (first) deaths would have occurred BY THE NEGLIGENCE IS IN NOT TAKING QUICK ACTION, when people had very little to go on and the moment it was clear THE COMMON DENOMINATOR = Lucy!

Riiiiighty · 22/08/2023 12:00

BUT

IfICantHaveYou · 22/08/2023 12:00

Why are you shouting?

theDudesmummy · 22/08/2023 12:01

@ASDMumof2 there are no "brain scans" that can diagnose psychopathy. It is a diagnosis made on history and presentation (mostly on history).

Dalekjastninerels · 22/08/2023 12:01

drpet49 · 22/08/2023 11:56

This is what I don’t understand either. And the role her parents played in all this. Her father writing a letter to the board. Appearing at a work tribunal. All very odd.

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Her father doing this is totally bizarre and totally embarrassing.

If her father had no idea and was supportive in private, ok- but to actually write a letter and go to her tribunal is cringey as hell.

The milion dollar question is why would he?

Riiiiighty · 22/08/2023 12:01

Sorry my key board- wanted to change it but wanted to post quick enough too. Happy?

Nodeepdiving · 22/08/2023 12:02

Janieforever · 22/08/2023 07:25

I was dismayed by how the last thread descended, people who had not even taken the time or courtesy to understand how these poor babies died trying to argue her innocence.

Even up thread someone is asking if stats had anything to do with it.

no, no they didn’t, the forensics and pathology results show these babies were murdered. And that’s the key overwhelming evidence of her guilt.

I think some people haven’t taken the time to read and have got confused by the term “unexplained deaths” , when those deaths are no longer unexplained, the science has explained it, all too clearly.

it’s a beyond shocking case, it will take therapists a life time to understand, if ever, why she chose to do what she did. She is one of the most prolific serial killers in our history.

I asked whether any statistical evidence was included, because there are some notorious miscarriages of justice due to incorrect probability calculations being used as evidence. I wasn't hinting at her being innocent, it was a question intended to be taken at face value. Quite aside from that, we're all allowed an opinion, you're not superior to people who doubt her guilt because you think her conviction is sound.

Just to be very clear: I am not questioning LL's guilt, I merely asked someone for more detailed information. Ya know, asking as a means of expanding one's knowledge.

loyalist · 22/08/2023 12:03

Riiiiighty · 22/08/2023 11:36

Please elaborate on the 'racism' angle. Thanks

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Have you seen a photo of the “other nurse” on duty with letby?

Marmite17 · 22/08/2023 12:03

Panic71 · 22/08/2023 07:53

I agree with this.
There must be few cases where a person is convicted with circumstantial evidence but the notes, the record keeping at her home and the shift pattern all make it hard to believe it wasn’t her. The deaths were proven to be as a result of intentional harm and even LL did agree with this. I’d be interested to hear what her defence team think personally rather than professionally.

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This. I also thought she might be being scapegoated in the early days and before reading the full details of the evidence against her. I'm not especially curious about what her defence thought about her personally.
The sheer amount of circumstantial evidence is overwhelming, plus the other details, all pointing towards her committing these crimes.
Who else could it have been? Unless she was stalked by a baby killer, who somehow, unnoticed by anyone else, was disconnecting breathing tubes, turning off alarms, injecting babies with insulin etc. Clearly that couldn't have happened.
Neither could that number of "mistakes" due to incompetence or short staffing.
My mind personally would go to incompetence after the first unexplained death. Understaffing couldn't explain deliberate acts of harm.
I don't routinely follow cases of babies dying in neo natal care, especially since 2016. I imagine many are on the edge of life and do.
Before the details were in the public arena, I think many people would think innocent until proven guilty.
On the last, now thankfully deleted thread, there were some really nasty personal attacks on anyone who simply didn't have the full details and kept an open mind or asked questions. I cause evil to flourish apparently. The posts suggesting I read about it, directing to facts, with links were useful.

Tapasita · 22/08/2023 12:04

I got flamed on another thread for suggesting that Lucy should have been forced to stand in the dock and hear her sentence. I know there are practical issues with this approach but it is absolutely clear in my mind that a convicted criminal should be present to hear the sentence being passed down to them, and to hear the victim impact statements from the families. Some families were reported as saying that this was Letby's final insult to them, and even then, she was trying to control the narrative and the ending by exercising her will by not attending court.

It's absolutely disgusting that she had the option to hide in her cell. Those poor babies din't have a choice as they desperately fought for life.

I am 100% behind a law change on this, and I hope it happens soon

Orangebadger · 22/08/2023 12:04

@x2boys yes I know. I am a nurse too, background A&E. if a consultant or several of them had concerns of the practice of a nurse they would first go to the matron and I doubt the first thought would be murderer! More likely incompetence. I have seen no mention of the nurse managers if the neonatal unit mentioned which I fine bizarre as I am pretty sure they would be the first to be approached.

ASDMumof2 · 22/08/2023 12:04

@theDudesmummy latest research is showing an area of the brain with an absence of neurones in psychopathic brains.

So, there is a scan. I think they've scanned c250 peopkes brains, and the 30 psychopaths included all have the same feature. It's that stark.

Theborder · 22/08/2023 12:05

I think people with psychopathy have been shown to have structurally different brains on scans. I still don’t believe they were born without empathy though. It’s nurtured/learned or triggered in some way or another, usually in childhood. A “normal” looking family life on the outside doesn’t mean much mind. Anything can happen behind closed doors.

Riiiiighty · 22/08/2023 12:05

Riiiiighty · 22/08/2023 12:00

I am NOT making it about race- I would be stupid to, by race WAS A KEY FACTOR WHY NO ACTION WAS TAKEN EARLY ENOUGH.

It is accepted some (first) deaths would have occurred BY THE NEGLIGENCE IS IN NOT TAKING QUICK ACTION, when people had very little to go on and the moment it was clear THE COMMON DENOMINATOR = Lucy!

And that's why, for those who do not understand the law, there will be criminal charges brought against certain people and they know it themselves. The day I read the chief medic in this trial saying he was going to write to the police (last week), is the day I again, believed in justice! There will be justice as this was gross negligence on an industrial scale.