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Not only did Lucy Letby kill and badly hurt babies…

803 replies

determinedtomakethiswork · 18/08/2023 22:23

She also prepared the memory boxes for parents of the dead children. Can you imagine having a memory box with photos and footprints of your dead child which had been taken by his or her merger?

That goes way beyond the murder. I just don't know how the families are coping.

OP posts:
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Paul2023 · 19/08/2023 07:46

Need to end I mean

determinedtomakethiswork · 19/08/2023 07:47

It's pretty clear based on everything that's been reported the relationship between her parents and her is enabling and unusual.

Where is your evidence for this? I followed this case pretty closely and I haven't read anything to suggest that. They were proud of her for being the first in the family to go to university. They did wish she lived nearer to them, and that might be a hint, but very many parents wish their children lived nearer.

I would be really interested to know where you got this information from.

OP posts:
Chickentikka567 · 19/08/2023 07:51

Please don't blame her parents. People are capable of hiding all sorts, just read some of the threads on here.
Also, you can't 'drag' someone up to the court room.

Marmite17 · 19/08/2023 07:51

I wonder if the first death was an accident and she then just unraveled, there possibly was a degree of workplace bullying.
I really admire medics who can still function after just one tragedy to complete another 12 hours more, still functioning. In my job, not close to being that stressful, I couldn't just cry, a couple of times I did. Second time sent straight back in. Culture meant get out of the kitchen if you can't take the heat. By the time people were off with stress they were very ill. Telling comment was when she replied to bet you're looking forward to some time off, with, no I'll be back tomorrow.
It was also seen as a fluffy toys and butterflies job. It wasn't. It was armour on at times. She seemed to see herself as a lovely, caring person. Job is sold as that.
There's far more strength to it.
I can't comprehend why anyone would deliberately take the action of injecting an baby with insulin, possibly started as wishing for a pleasant death?
More in keeping for the cats she loved?
I really hope that, if anything good could come of this, health workers are given down time and support, and hospital administrators held more accountable.

Andthereyougo · 19/08/2023 07:51

The managers, together and separately, need to be thoroughly investigated.
They ignored warnings repeatedly and thought up a “solution” to the problem by making the doctors apologise. I don’t believe there are many Letby’s in the NHS but what other concerns are being brushed under the carpet?

determinedtomakethiswork · 19/08/2023 07:56

AllHopeandRainbows · 19/08/2023 06:30

Also just read @iloveeverykindofcat theory

“a hero/martyr complex - deliberately making patients much sicker so you can 'save' them at the last second and be lauded as a hero/above and beyond the call of duty/best doctor or nurse ever.”

Which sounds plausible to be honest!

She wasn't doing this at all though. That's what Beverly Allitt was doing. She didn't rescue any of the children. Some of them seem to be caused by her, wanting her boyfriend to come in to the room, but not by her, wanting him to rescue anyone. Some of the children she tried to kill three times. That is not a hero complex.

OP posts:
LizzieSiddal · 19/08/2023 07:56

Obviously what she has done is absolutely horrific but so is what those managers in the NHS did. Ignoring evidence from 7 Consultants and making them out to be the maniacs. That poor consulatant on TV last night, every death and serious incident is etched on his face. And he specifically said the managers were more interested in saving the hospitals reputation rather than stopping a murderer.

There must be an external body set up that NHS whistle blowers can go to. And quickly.

PurplePansy05 · 19/08/2023 07:56

Jamtartforme · 19/08/2023 07:31

It's pretty clear based on everything that's been reported the relationship between her parents and her is enabling and unusual.

Is it? Why?

It's not common for a father of an adult employee to attend her grievance sessions with the employer and then insist on apology being issued by consultants who rightly raised concerns about her.

Paul2023 · 19/08/2023 07:58

Letby is an only child too. So her parents have effectively lost a child that they’ll
never see properly again ( only in a prison) and their legacy is a daughter who’ll go down in a history as one of Britains worst serial klllers.

A far cry form the proud parents of an only child who went to university and went into the NHS.

Paul2023 · 19/08/2023 07:59

PurplePansy05 · 19/08/2023 07:56

It's not common for a father of an adult employee to attend her grievance sessions with the employer and then insist on apology being issued by consultants who rightly raised concerns about her.

Correct, I’d never drag my parents into coming to a workplace hearing with me. That’s what I have a union rep for.

LizzieSiddal · 19/08/2023 08:00

Re the childhood of Letby, I was listening to R4 news programme yesterday and a criminal psychologist who works in high security prisons, said she’d never met a murderer who hadn’t had a violent and abusive childhood. I was quite shocked that she could say something like that, my first thought was how does she know these murders are all telling the truth?

Hungrycaterpillarsmummy · 19/08/2023 08:01

From the BBC txt article, the doctor she was Infatuated with messaged her and said...

Doctor: "You are one of a few nurses across the region (I've worked pretty much everywhere) that I would trust with my own children."

!!

AllHopeandRainbows · 19/08/2023 08:03

HaveYouHeardOfARoadAtlas · 19/08/2023 07:13

I can believe she hid her true self from everyone. She had friends who thought she was normal, her work colleagues liked her. The consultant after they looked at the stats at who was present said “oh no, not nice Lucy”. So the senior doctors didn’t notice anything odd about her. So yes I can believe her parents had no idea.

as humans we want to think that such an evil person could be noticed, that they couldn’t appear normal. But sadly that’s not always the case.

I feel so sorry for the families. And also for the families of babies around the U.K. who are currently in NICUs. Even though it’s so rare you’d be so worried if you currently had a baby on a NICU.

Yes that’s a good point about people with babies currently in NICU. My DD will soon be having to go into hospital (and has in the past) and not once before now did it ever occur to me that somebody could/would harm her but as silly as it sounds this is another add on to my anxiety now, just thinking what if 😨 and I feel bad for feeling that way because that’s not fair on the nurses and doctors who are good people just trying to do their job and help people.

Hungrycaterpillarsmummy · 19/08/2023 08:03

Laurapb88 · 18/08/2023 23:02

They don't believe she did it well her mum doesn't she sobbed in court and said this can't be happening

Well, I imagine she can't actually believe it's happening.
Who would?

To me it's a normal turn of phrase.

Shurleyknot · 19/08/2023 08:04

Nevermay · 18/08/2023 22:49

One of my friends has a daughter who is a psychopath, and they knew it was likely from around the age of 9, and another daughter, who is not old enough for a diagnosis yet, but again, parents think it likely, and they thought that from about the age of 7. And two other children between them who are not.

Sorry I have not got time to look at all pages in this thread and sorry if you have been asked this already but what made your friends try get this diagnosis?

butterpuffed · 19/08/2023 08:04

One of the consultants was being interviewed on the News and when asked if he thought any of the children could have been saved ,he said well , lets say 'they 'd be going to school by now '. Heartbreaking .

Cucucucu · 19/08/2023 08:11

Whattodo112222 · 18/08/2023 22:32

I felt awful the entire way through that documentary. That lead Consultant so clearly has ptsd..

Those poor, poor families.

I'm utterly dumbfounded all her friends are sticking by her.

I want to read all court transcripts on this one . The fact the jury took weeks to deliberate makes me curious on the actual evidence . Now I’m by no means saying she is innocent , I do t believe she is but it would not be the first time a negligent hospital uses a nurse as a scapegoat .
I do wonder if she will appeal .

WombatCowgirl · 19/08/2023 08:13

I've noticed how when someone commits a terrible crime there is a tendency to portray them as a monster and a demon, a "psychopath", to distance them from the rest of us, to cast them out from humanity in a reassuring way, and then look back for signs that should have been spotted sooner that this person was not one of us.

I remember a news report showing the class photograph of Harold Shipman at primary school and calling him, " a sinister child in a bow tie" in the gravelly voice used to describe baddies in film trailers. On this thread people are saying some people are born evil, the parents must have known etc. I always wonder of this is a coping mechanism for society, so that we feel less guilty for not noticing that people who ARE humans, who have friends, socialise etc can do these things.

The reverse seems to happen too: what was that case in Bristol where an older, eccentric single man was falsely accused of murder?

As she was an ill baby herself, had a traumatic birth and became a cosseted child, maybe yes there is a logic here: all those babies are now ill like her, and she can save them or her potential lover can save them, or she can see how devastated the families are. Subconsciously she might be reliving her own trauma, making it play out again and again. There can be logic there, without empathy to limit her actions. I don't imagine many people who commit these crimes are rubbing their hands together like a stereotypical villain.

iloveeverykindofcat · 19/08/2023 08:14

@AllHopeandRainbows this guy is the most famous example I think https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/06/05/niels-hoegel-german-nurse-admits-killing-patients/

HaveYouHeardOfARoadAtlas · 19/08/2023 08:17

Cucucucu · 19/08/2023 08:11

I want to read all court transcripts on this one . The fact the jury took weeks to deliberate makes me curious on the actual evidence . Now I’m by no means saying she is innocent , I do t believe she is but it would not be the first time a negligent hospital uses a nurse as a scapegoat .
I do wonder if she will appeal .

She can’t appeal unless there’s new evidence or something else comes to light like jury issues, issues with how the trial was conducted, poor representation.

she can ask to appeal but it doesn’t have to be granted. I was reading an opinion from a barrister yesterday who said he can’t see she would have any grounds to appeal.

Paul2023 · 19/08/2023 08:18

LizzieSiddal · 19/08/2023 08:00

Re the childhood of Letby, I was listening to R4 news programme yesterday and a criminal psychologist who works in high security prisons, said she’d never met a murderer who hadn’t had a violent and abusive childhood. I was quite shocked that she could say something like that, my first thought was how does she know these murders are all telling the truth?

Im shocked too. I don’t believe it either. One of Lee Rigby killers was from a religious decent family.
Of course some murderers come from bad family backgrounds. But not all of them.

Theres no such thing as stereotypical murderer.

Marmite17 · 19/08/2023 08:19

The who was working that night rota shows very few staff on, can't see all of it. Agree with union rep comment, would have added to her stress level and workload. Why on earth was she not moved sooner?
There's a lot more to this story. And the higher ups shouldn't get away with it.
The consultants did an admirable job of getting her convicted eventually but it wasn't their intention to begin with. They flagged, nothing was done. Her main protagonist even mentioned the time off!
Presumably she couldn't take it.

Paul2023 · 19/08/2023 08:21

HaveYouHeardOfARoadAtlas · 19/08/2023 08:17

She can’t appeal unless there’s new evidence or something else comes to light like jury issues, issues with how the trial was conducted, poor representation.

she can ask to appeal but it doesn’t have to be granted. I was reading an opinion from a barrister yesterday who said he can’t see she would have any grounds to appeal.

It’s seven deaths though isn’t it? One maybe would give her the benefit of the doubt but seven ?

Letby will likely die in prison. Her sentence if not a whole life, probably a minimum of 45 years.

Of course she’ll appeal. She’s not nothing to lose by appealing.

Iserstatue · 19/08/2023 08:25

Chickentikka567 · 19/08/2023 07:51

Please don't blame her parents. People are capable of hiding all sorts, just read some of the threads on here.
Also, you can't 'drag' someone up to the court room.

"Also, you can't 'drag' someone up to the court room"

This: The public who demand this don't understand the practicalities of doing this and the fact it will always carry a risk of physical and/or mental injury to staff.

BreatheAndFocus · 19/08/2023 08:29

Marmite17 · 19/08/2023 07:51

I wonder if the first death was an accident and she then just unraveled, there possibly was a degree of workplace bullying.
I really admire medics who can still function after just one tragedy to complete another 12 hours more, still functioning. In my job, not close to being that stressful, I couldn't just cry, a couple of times I did. Second time sent straight back in. Culture meant get out of the kitchen if you can't take the heat. By the time people were off with stress they were very ill. Telling comment was when she replied to bet you're looking forward to some time off, with, no I'll be back tomorrow.
It was also seen as a fluffy toys and butterflies job. It wasn't. It was armour on at times. She seemed to see herself as a lovely, caring person. Job is sold as that.
There's far more strength to it.
I can't comprehend why anyone would deliberately take the action of injecting an baby with insulin, possibly started as wishing for a pleasant death?
More in keeping for the cats she loved?
I really hope that, if anything good could come of this, health workers are given down time and support, and hospital administrators held more accountable.

She’s a wicked, heartless person. The suggestion that the first death was an accident and that the others were because she was bullied and/or stressed is ridiculous! She injected air into the bloodstream of the first baby - that was no accident!

As for this:

I can’t comprehend why anyone would deliberately take the action of injecting a baby with insulin, possibly started as wishing for a pleasant death?
More in keeping for the cats she loved? I really hope that, if anything good could come of this, health workers are given down time and support, and hospital administrators held more accountable

Words fail me. One of the babies she attempted to kill with insulin survived but with lasting effects. Hardly a “pleasant death” (wtaf??). Your suggestion that she ‘euthanised’ perfectly healthy babies is obscene, frankly. More than that, people like you are why evil flourishes. You’re incredibly naive if you think the fact you can’t comprehend why people would do terrible things means it doesn’t happen and there must be an excuse for it.