Not only did Lucy Letby kill and badly hurt babies…

[determinedtomakethiswork]

She also prepared the memory boxes for parents of the dead children. Can you imagine having a memory box with photos and footprints of your dead child which had been taken by his or her merger?

That goes way beyond the murder. I just don't know how the families are coping.

Same, I sat on a jury where we were all convinced that the defendant had committed the crime but the judge had instructed us that if the prosecution had not met the burden of proof required, which is significant, we must find him not guilty. Accordingly we found him not guilty. Just thinking someone is guilty because they're smirking at you from the dock isn't enough.
I think the jury will have worked very hard in this case and I hope they are being well supported now.

I've been reflecting on her mother's outburst at the time of the arrest "I did it! Take me!" It's the kind of thing you would say if deep down you had doubts that your child was innocent. It's just not something that would come out of your mouth if you 100% thought they had been mistaken. She knew. Or at least had a hunch.

I am really shocked by the management cover-up. I’d have thought the parents of the later babies that died would have a good case re a suit against the trust as their deaths could have been prevented. That is the aspect that hits for me- she could have been stopped.

https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/national/23732453.attention-seeking-letby-crush-doctor-colleague-court-heard/
Guardian link seems to have disappeared.

Texts show that that they had a relationship, it wasn't a crush on her part. They met up outside the hospital, it was mutual.

Not sure if her doctor friend was testifying for or against her. Wish this site had edit!
Just not convinced she's guilty, there is so little evidence.
Obviously horrible crimes had been committed.

God rest their sweet innocent souls. There will be a public enquiry lasting years and costing millions that will conclude that 'lessons have been learned'. Oh yeah. where have we heard that before?

But I think, if she didn't do it, well it's just bad luck? I've if you don't think she was responsible then no crimes were committed.

Are you a medical professional?
I doubt that 'personality disorders' are on the rise, people are more open about it and giving a 'diagnosis'. Maybe anxiety etc people refusing to get on with it but there have always been people who these days would be 'diagnosed'

Crimes were definitely committed, there just seems to be little concrete evidence that she was the one committing them imo.

Did any of the nurses raise and issues or even give evidence in this case or was it just consultants?

I work in the areas discussed and I'd say emotional dysregulation is on the rise which can be a feature of PDs but also associated with many other mental illness/neurodevelopmental conditions. But can also just be a 'symptom' which isn't part of a diagnosis that can be made.

It's why the met police have won their battle to not respond to most 'mental health' calls. And why every other Police force complains that so much of their time is taken up by dealing with such calls. The majority are not psychotically or otherwise severely mentally unwell people who need treatment or hospital admission. They're emotionally dysregulated people.

Eddielizzard · Today 10:35
I think those people at the hospital who ignored the doctors should be held to account and prosecuted.

I agree.

I'm sorry if this has already been mentioned but it sounds so much like the series The Nurse, although the nurse in question wasn't targeting babies. But she loved the praise, being thought a great nurse and the adrenaline. Also a sociopath.

It was also very difficult to get anyone to take complaints seriously

So what does that mean?
They are angry or sad, and so call the police?
I don't know what to think. Of course it's good that we have more open conditions about mental health etc but it seems that everyone has some sort of condition these days. It's like a cool thing.

Self-awareness and understanding your emotions is supposed to make you better at managing it, Instead it just seems to make people take less responsibility and dump the problem onto someone else to fix.,

I say that as a newly diagnosed ND person who has also struggled with this.

Also @Iserstatue I'd imagine in the past people don't even 'seek help' for every little thing. Or if they did the phone would be put down immediately instead of all this 'process'.

There was also a film based on a true story, starring Eddie Redmayne as a nurse who killed patients and Jessica Chastaine as his friend who was also the whistleblower.
The film was as much about the failings of the US hospital system.
He was able to go from job to job as nurses were in demand, and his previous colleagues / hospital management had strong suspicions but were not prepared to go to the police.

I agree.
To me it sounds like her mother already knew and she felt the guilt in creating and raising someone who could do such crimes.

What do you actually do with that information? How do you rear a psychopath? How is it even possible in a child that age?

Surely if you had no idea wtf had happened at the time of the arrest wouldn't you be asking what your child was being arrested for rather than saying “take me”? Very odd

Sky news had an interview with a nurse who was also in as an expectant mother. She saw letby telling parents of a sick infant "I wouldn't hold out much hope if I were you" and she complained to the (matron? Didn't quite catch).
She thinks this prompted letby to attack her newborn shortly after

That and mug shots are never flattering. LL looks far less appealing in her mug shot than she does in the social media photos that have been used throughout the case. She doesn't look dead eyed when with friends but she does in the mug shot.

I think Myra Hindley is a good example, the mug shots with the dark roots to hear bleached hair make her look terrible, then look at her on the moor with her arm round her dog and she looks like a perfectly nice young woman.

They're angry or sad or both and have been triggered so go to a bridge to contemplate suicide. Or look like they're contemplating suicide. Or self-harm at home and concerned family members call the police. Or they have an argument at home, get dumped by a partner or some other trigger and threaten to kill their Mum/Gran/partner. Or smash things up, break windows, shout at or threaten people at home or in publlic and generally scare people so the Police are called.

Emotional dysregulation literally means an inability to control their emotions so having an extreme reaction that is outside of the 'norm'.

So The Police are called and if outside the home, the individual is sectioned by the Police on sec 136 of the mental health act so the person is taken to a place of safety to be assessed by MH professionals. Who will request a mental health act assessment if they feel the person meets the criteria to be detained in hospital. Or the person might be arrested by Police for breach of the peace, assault etc but then referred to custody mental health professionals due to their concerning behaviour in cells.

In the case of the met police 78% of the people they were detaining on sec 136 were not detained under the MHA and released. Some may be referred to a community mental health team for follow-up. Some will be released with information about how to access counselling or other resources which may be helpful.

Some will engage with a CMHT if referred, some will not. Some will follow up on resources given, some will not.

Many people are repeatedly sectioned by Police, some more than once in a night. Some several times a month. Some more occasionally but still a pattern.

They don't meet the criteria to be detained to hospital but also don't want to/are unable for whatever reason to access the voluntary resources that might help them so it goes on and on and round and round.

I would like if given the opportunity to look at the transcripts. I’m an Ex solicitor (though not criminal) from what I heard on the panorama program last night that a lot of the evidence is circumstantial.

The managers need to be held to account and should have investigated thoroughly at the time.

Link

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/lucy-letby-mother-fears-killer-nurse-harmed-her-baby-in-act-of-revenge-12922481