The immigrant barge - what’s actually wrong with using it?

[NC523]

Educate me!

I looked at pics from the inside, it all looks very much like standard student accommodation to me, including common rooms/relaxation areas/health support on board. Residents can go on & off the boat, it’s passed fire etc safety and been used to house people in lots of other situations. I don’t understand why people think it’s not ok. Can anyone explain please?

Hmm factual yes leaving out the main method of a migration policy isn’t that factual.

@NC523 that you Suella?

So it won't be that wonderful

Mind you again taking it away from people who are on the waiting list already living here

Posted by a British/afghan councillor in Harrow:

They were safe in France.

JanglyBeads
Posted by a British/afghan councillor in Harrow

She was Labour's parliamentary candidate for the 2019 election:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/general-election-labour-antisemitism-gassed-peymana-assad-israel-a9218451.html#comments-area

https://order-order.com/2019/11/25/labour-candidate-vowed-100-take-arms-allies-afghanistan/

Ukrainians were safe in Poland, yet we were encouraged and even paid to welcome them into our country and homes.

Don’t you think that’s a major flaw in the ‘First country of safety’ argument?

Spoiler alert - they looked right.

And your point is, @Clavinova?

If you want someone else making the same point try a specialist refugee lawyer

JanglyBeads
And your point is

Peymana Assad was Labour's parliamentary candidate for the 2019 election - I thought that was relevant.

I would have thought the fact of her afghani heritage was more relevant here really

I may have mention this before on this thread. The government estimates there to be 700,000 empty homes in the UK, that does not count all empy homes so the true number is likely to be over a million.

The UK housing problem is not asylum seekers.

How many people by safe passage from Afghanistan would ensure no more crossings by boat?

Oh are they? i don't think they have anything like the rights you or i have....so they aren't British nationals at all..... .or did we change the law to allow them to come here and claim citizenship very quickly? and then extended to their children....

& the comparison isn't the same, Uganda threatened to expel these Ugandan Asians, leaving them stateless & homeless, there weren't 5m of them... 27k came to the UK vs 5m.

HK is a "relatively" safe place, its not at war or in famine... and whilst protest isn't tolerated, thats not a reason to invite in 5m people, many of whom have been totally unaffected by the student protests and support the Chinese state.... its total madness..... we do a heck of lot of business there, the Chinese people really suffering are the Uyghurs but we don't help them.

Meanwhile Afghans Syrians etc escaping death and imprisonment, are encouraged to drown in the channel to the cheers of many in the UK and should they get here, they will live in limbo for years and or be sent to Rwanda.

You literally are suggesting anyone can come though. I posted what the requirements are to be classified as seeking asylum. Anyone who says they are gay or doesn’t support the government could be at risk in many countries . How can you say otherwise?
People in boats are coming from a home country that is monumentally fucked. Essentially they are all economic migrants because they don’t see a future there.

Ukraines have a short term problem in their country and will want to return to Ukraine when it’s over. It’s mostly women and children whist the men are defending Ukraine. Nothing to do with them being “not brown”.

Isn't there an old Greek parable able a battle between the wind and the sun to achieve a goal ?

And no matter how hard, how cold, how bitter, how fierce, how cruel the wind was, it could never manage the task,

A few moments of warm sun, and it was all over.

Presumably this is the sort of learning we lose when we worry about the right pronouns for the sun and the wind ?

Anyone who says they are gay or doesn’t support the government
Oh come off it. There are clearly 2 parts to persecution 1) having the characteristic being persecuted 2) living in a country where persecution means your life or liberty is at risk.

Someone who turns up here and says "I'm gay and my country doesn't like it" is not getting granted asylum.

In many countries, out gay people can be imprisoned, tortured or killed.

Same for people who are vocally anti government.

We are lucky to live in a country with liberal values and freedom of speech, others don't have this. People are not pretending to be gay to seel asylum.

The easiest way for the government to reduce crossing by boat would be to either rejoin the EU or to renegotiate the deal so we are in the Dublin convention.

We did this to ourselves when we "took back control".

All this "stop the boats" rhetoric is lifted from Australian politics, which is a totally different culture and set of immigration politics.

As well as offshore processing, Aus also spent a lot on patrolling it's waters and turning boats back. We don't appear to be proposing this

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-did-australian-offshore-asylum-system-reduce-boat-crossings

And what has hapoens to refugees to Australia is just awful

https://www.justsecurity.org/73868/australia-stopped-the-boats-but-what-happened-to-the-refugees-who-reached-its-shores/

If you look at the foreign tv channels eg Punjabi, there are lots of ads for solicitors to help with visas etc

How many were transferred under the Dublin Convention when it was running

Also out of say 60k migrants arriving by boat how many do pp think would be transferred elsewhere?

All this "stop the boats" rhetoric is lifted from Australian politics, which is a totally different culture and set of immigration politics.

Australias coastline (and I will note the mathematical problem of precision) is about 16,000 miles. With a fucktonne of those miles being further from the nearest town that is is from Lands End to John O'Groats. That is a hell of a challenge if people decide to cross thousands of miles of ocean surreptitiously to sneak in.

Great Britain, by contrast has 11,000 miles of coastline, and even in the arse end of Cornwall you are never more than a hardy trek to the nearest population compared to Australia. And it's much easier to be covert. Just painting your boat brown and you'll merge in to the actual shit that's insulating Britain from the rest of the world.

And being British of course our people smugglers are world class. Not that this government is really stretching them.

Australia had high numbers arriving before the policies were put in place. In the thousands and going up each year.

It’s zero now due to Howard iirc putting policies in. No Labor gov will touch it even if they opposed it at the time.

When I was a teenager I worked with a man who was a soldier at the liberation of Belsen. He said the smell was evident from miles around so he believed the local Germans must have known what was happening.

Added to that there were deliveries of supplies so non military people had been visiting the camp and towards the end of the war there were the forced marches from concentration camps in the east. I can't imagine those death marches looked like a fun event.

So I don't believe it wasn't well known.

The easiest way for the government to reduce crossing by boat would be to either rejoin the EU or to renegotiate the deal so we are in the Dublin convention.

I don't think they want to reduce the crossings. It's all that's shoring up their hold on power. What I think they want to do is make it look like they are doping something - the specifics are irrelevant because no one will get close enough to be heard. Then when whatever it was "fails" they can up the ante and help themselves to more money and pretend it's someone elses fault.

The Australian Labor gov could do some of the suggestions here instead of the policies they inherited.

They could drop Nauru and prosecute smugglers, do returns agreements etc

They don’t run on it because they know they’re superficial and non viable ideas that would get them back to thousands of people on boats pdq