Page 15 | The immigrant barge - what’s actually wrong with using it?

NC523 · 2023-08-08T17:16:44+00:00

Educate me! I looked at pics from the inside, it all looks very much like standard student accommodation to me, including common rooms/relaxation areas/health support on board. Residents can go on & off the boat, it’s passed fire etc safety and been used to house people in lots of other situations. I don’t understand why people think it’s not ok. Can anyone explain please?

woodhill · 09/08/2023 16:30

They want a better life understandably but shouldn't be to the detriment of the people living here

RafaistheKingofClay · 09/08/2023 16:32

QueenCoconut · 09/08/2023 14:22

It will be interesting to see the polls in the coming weeks as I imagine the gap between conservatives and labour is going to decrease ( the support for conservatives will go up purely based on this issue).
I think a lot of people commenting on these threads live in their idealistic bubble and are completely removed from real life and from what’s happening in town and cities around them.

I’ll bet you it doesn’t move significantly. They’ve been banging on about this for weeks. The Tory party are spectacularly failing to deal with a problem they created and are massively publicising. A couple of % points at most.

Alexandra2001 · 09/08/2023 16:39

Steben2 · 09/08/2023 16:01

@Alexandra2001 of course no one wants that and don’t jump to conclusions but there must be a way to protect people in this
country and effectively deal with the crisis. I’d be for setting up processing centres in France amongst other measures. But the reality is there also needs to be a deterrent. I’m currently in the process of moving overseas for a “better life” - I’ve had to save hard to fund the visa costs and to prove I am who I say I am by providing police checks, documentation. I can’t just rock up in the country I want to live in and expect to be fed, housed and looked after ahead of the local population just because I want a better life. The world just doesn’t work like that.

I m certainly not jumping to conclusions.. You said "secure facilities..." and that "they shouldn't be with local communities... as thats not fair"

Its good to see you ve had time to reconsider your original comments and what the reality of these would mean.

We either allow migrants freedom from their Govt provided accommodation or we imprison them... there isn't a halfway house.

Look, this is an awful situation BUT we chose to leave the EU, withdraw ourselves from influence with our closest neighbours, i for one could see in 2015/16 what would happen if we left, based on what we'd already seen with the camps in and around Calais in the 2000s but we came to agreements with the EU/France and that flow of economic migrants slowed, its now come back with a vengeance, we've only ourselves to blame.

How we get ourselves back out, is anyone's guess, imho its now impossible, in the short term, to do so without very extreme measures.

noblegiraffe · 09/08/2023 16:39

Steben2 · 09/08/2023 16:27

Nope @JanglyBeads but neither are a large percentage of people from places like India, Albania and Pakistan who make up a large number of economic migrants.

That'll presumably be why the vast majority of asylum applications for people arriving from India and Albania are rejected then? A higher % are accepted from Pakistan but the numbers are lower.

jgw1 · 09/08/2023 16:39

Barbadossunset · 09/08/2023 15:47

The governmetn estimates there are 700,000 empty homes in the UK, their methodlogy misses some so the true number may well be over a million.

jgw1 You've posted this several times on both threads about the barge accommodation.
What do you think should happen? Should the empty properties be seized?

As a starting point we should have an honest conversation about why there is so much inequality in this country without resort to rabble rousing and creating hatred against others such as the EU and migrants. We should discuss openly whether we are happy for some people to have many homes and others to have none. For some people to have more money than they could ever spend and others to have none.

The million empty homes is but one example of the inequality, the greed that means that the super wealthy like Rishi Sunak pay a lower proportion of their income in taxes than teachers and nurses is another.

The answer in my view lies in culture change that values a persons contribution to society more than their material possessions.

RafaistheKingofClay · 09/08/2023 16:39

LauraNorda · 09/08/2023 15:50

@Mrtumblefan For pitys sake, if you stop wringing your hands long enough, you may actually type something that makes sense.

First and foremost, they are mostly not refugees. They are economic migrants. I would bet that most actual refugees would be happy to stop in the first safe country they arrive in.

Are you actively campaigning to raise income tax by 3p in the pound to pay for all the additional asylum processing? Oh, and all the extra health services, schools, energy infrastructure, water infrastructure, housing and, yes, benefits, because, lets be honest here. Very very few of those coming in boats are doctors, engineers and other in-demand, high-earning people. Most have, at best, a rudimentary grasp of English and will be a drain on society going forwards.

Another issue I would bet my pension on is that 99% of boat arrivals view women as second class citizens. Chattal. It’s no coincidence that Sweden is now the rape capital of Europe after mass immigration of these people, whereas before, it was very safe for women to walk the streets at night. I don’t want that kind of society for my daughter. You may be happy to live like that.

Another issue is that these people are never of the mindset, new country new start. No. They bring with them and continue their petty squabbles and feuds. I don’t give a damn about their culture, traditions and heritage.

I bet, had you been on a lifeboat from the Titanic, you would have been pulling people out of the water and not stopped until your own lifeboat sank and you all died.

Life isn’t fair and I know I am in the top 10% on this planet but your logic and comprehension of the situation is on a par with your hero.

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Dear chatbotAI Please write me a MN post containing all the myths about refugees and no facts.

noblegiraffe · 09/08/2023 16:41

Incidentally we do have a lot of Indian economic migrants coming here - on the Skilled Worker visa scheme. We kind of need them.

jgw1 · 09/08/2023 16:41

Steben2 · 09/08/2023 16:01

@Alexandra2001 of course no one wants that and don’t jump to conclusions but there must be a way to protect people in this
country and effectively deal with the crisis. I’d be for setting up processing centres in France amongst other measures. But the reality is there also needs to be a deterrent. I’m currently in the process of moving overseas for a “better life” - I’ve had to save hard to fund the visa costs and to prove I am who I say I am by providing police checks, documentation. I can’t just rock up in the country I want to live in and expect to be fed, housed and looked after ahead of the local population just because I want a better life. The world just doesn’t work like that.

So your intention is to be an economic migrant.
I presume you therefore like me are in favour of economic migration?

Alexandra2001 · 09/08/2023 16:42

RafaistheKingofClay · 09/08/2023 16:32

I’ll bet you it doesn’t move significantly. They’ve been banging on about this for weeks. The Tory party are spectacularly failing to deal with a problem they created and are massively publicising. A couple of % points at most.

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Polls will go up and down, within the margin of error but people aren't complete fools, they know the Tories have been in for many years and have done nothing to even slow the stem of boats crossing the channel.

They also know that 500 on a boat wont dent the 137,000 still here and 1000s more crossing each month (subject to weather)

Noizettely · 09/08/2023 16:42

I think using some of the empty homes would make sense.

Also because Cornwall is only busy between June to August, there is plenty of infrastructure there which could be used. Caravan parks, hotels, serviced campsites, holiday letting. Cornwall prides itself on its friendliness and accommodation. That seems a logical destination to me. A county that’s under occupied most of the year.

Alexandra2001 · 09/08/2023 16:48

Noizettely · 09/08/2023 16:42

I think using some of the empty homes would make sense.

Also because Cornwall is only busy between June to August, there is plenty of infrastructure there which could be used. Caravan parks, hotels, serviced campsites, holiday letting. Cornwall prides itself on its friendliness and accommodation. That seems a logical destination to me. A county that’s under occupied most of the year.

Agree, monies saved could be used to extend the River Tamar into the Atlantic, effectively making Cornwall an Island, compensation paid to anyone who wants to leave and Cornwall becomes the UKs "Cook Solution" so favoured by many here.

7eleven · 09/08/2023 16:53

Alexandra2001 · 09/08/2023 16:48

Agree, monies saved could be used to extend the River Tamar into the Atlantic, effectively making Cornwall an Island, compensation paid to anyone who wants to leave and Cornwall becomes the UKs "Cook Solution" so favoured by many here.

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Those Cornish people should be cast aside, with the wanton way they incorrectly make a cream scone! 😂😉

LauraNorda · 09/08/2023 17:02

jgw1 · 09/08/2023 16:41

So your intention is to be an economic migrant.
I presume you therefore like me are in favour of economic migration?

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@jgw1 I don't think there are many that object to skilled (the operative word), legal economic migrants.

I migrated to Australia for a job. I applied for a visa and jumped through all the hoops the Australian Embassy demanded, including a chest x-ray for TB, and myriad paperwork.

What I didn't do was just make my way to East Timor and get on a dinghy and paddle to Darwin.

Steben2 · 09/08/2023 17:04

I am in favour of controlled economic migration - where a skills list is published and we pick and choose accordingly and they are allowed into the country following the relevant visa medical and police checks. I work with a lot of economic migrants (predominantly Indian engineers in my field) and we absolutely do need them. I’m not sure where in any of my posts I said I’m against that? DH is a doctor and agree the NHS would be in an even more dire state without us importing the skills we need.

Nevermay · 09/08/2023 17:05

QueenCoconut · 09/08/2023 14:30

I think that a big proportion of people commenting here are not only interested in solutions to reducing the numbers waiting for their claims to be processed but reducing the overall numbers coming to claim asylum in the first place. Processing the claims faster doesn’t not resolve the issue. And this is where the public support for conservatives might start growing. We can only wait and see.

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Processing the claims faster doesn’t not resolve the issue

Yes it does, claims not being processed IS the issue

woodhill · 09/08/2023 17:06

Steben2 · 09/08/2023 17:04

I am in favour of controlled economic migration - where a skills list is published and we pick and choose accordingly and they are allowed into the country following the relevant visa medical and police checks. I work with a lot of economic migrants (predominantly Indian engineers in my field) and we absolutely do need them. I’m not sure where in any of my posts I said I’m against that? DH is a doctor and agree the NHS would be in an even more dire state without us importing the skills we need.

Yes agreed

RudsyFarmer · 09/08/2023 17:12

Once enough people come over there will be civil unrest. Then what’s the plan?

woodhill · 09/08/2023 17:15

RudsyFarmer · 09/08/2023 17:12

Once enough people come over there will be civil unrest. Then what’s the plan?

Yes I think that's a problem in the future

We need to look at our own history and the freedoms our ancestors have fought for

Abhannmor · 09/08/2023 17:16

Well for starters it's not big enough to accommodate all the Tory crooks. Although I agree it is probably better than they deserve.

Nevermay · 09/08/2023 17:20

RudsyFarmer · 09/08/2023 17:12

Once enough people come over there will be civil unrest. Then what’s the plan?

what do you mean by enough people? There are a lot of people in the UK! What number of inhabitants do you think is "wrong"? or is it just people from vulnerable minorities you think is "wrong"?

Alexandra2001 · 09/08/2023 17:29

RudsyFarmer · 09/08/2023 17:12

Once enough people come over there will be civil unrest. Then what’s the plan?

You tell me? UK opened the flood gates, shouldn't be forgotten it was Cameron who bombed Libya back to the stone age and where millions of migrants, from across the ME and Africa have ended up crossing into Europe and onto the UK.

The EU has now got an agreement with Tunisia to help re build its economy and to police its borders, not possible with Libya, still a failed state.

Whatever used to happen in Libya is now far far worse.

LauraNorda · 09/08/2023 17:36

RafaistheKingofClay · 09/08/2023 16:39

Dear chatbotAI Please write me a MN post containing all the myths about refugees and no facts.

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@RafaistheKingofClay

Can your human intelligence counter my points?

0021andabit · 09/08/2023 17:37

LauraNorda · 09/08/2023 17:02

@jgw1 I don't think there are many that object to skilled (the operative word), legal economic migrants.

I migrated to Australia for a job. I applied for a visa and jumped through all the hoops the Australian Embassy demanded, including a chest x-ray for TB, and myriad paperwork.

What I didn't do was just make my way to East Timor and get on a dinghy and paddle to Darwin.

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I assume you weren’t fleeing war or famine or persecution. I assume your house and your children’s school hadn’t been bombed to rubble. I assume you hadn’t been tortured.

The system for economic migration is separate to the asylum system.

Clavinova · 09/08/2023 17:40

Alexandra2001
Look, this is an awful situation BUT we chose to leave the EU, withdraw ourselves from influence with our closest neighbours, i for one could see in 2015/16 what would happen if we left, based on what we'd already seen with the camps in and around Calais in the 2000s but we came to agreements with the EU/France and that flow of economic migrants slowed, its now come back with a vengeance, we've only ourselves to blame.

It's come back with a vengeance in the EU as well though;

Last year the European Union, Switzerland and Norway recorded the largest number of asylum applications in seven years, with countries receiving nearly 1 million requests for international protection.

https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-1-million-asylum-seeker-application-2022-analysis/

noblegiraffe · 09/08/2023 17:44

LauraNorda · 09/08/2023 17:36

@RafaistheKingofClay

Can your human intelligence counter my points?

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Can you show that the vast majority of asylum seekers are, as you claim, in fact economic migrants?

The data suggests otherwise.