The Roman Catholic Church

[Orfuln]

Following the death of Sinead O'Connor.

Obviously the acts and crimes of this church are vast and can't be contained to one place. But in honour of a great woman, if you find it in yourself, give your testimony here.

Mine : my father was institutionalised, brutalised and brainwashed in childhood by the Catholic organisation who schooled him following the death of his father. He was an unhappy and violent man who didn't understand family relationships and consequently my own childhood was blighted with violence and misery. I did however learn my catechism very well. I now absolutely reject it.

Following the death of Sinead O'Connor.

Obviously the acts and crimes of this church are vast and can't be contained to one place. But in honour of a great woman, if you find it in yourself, give your testimony here.

Your post is in very poor taste.

Sinead O'Connor wasn't even a Catholic when she died.

Yes but was known for criticising the Catholic Chruch even though it basically got her blacklisted. Did you even read the OP?

(Pressed 'post' too soon,

I certainly don’t want to excuse or downplay the crimes of Catholic priests, bishops and nuns in this area, which are real and unspeakably heinous. But I do want to take a step back from the emotional issues surrounding the scandal addressed and focus on a simple factual question:

Are Catholic priests (and nuns)more likely to abuse minors than other comparable authority figures?

Ernie Allen, the director of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, said in an interview for Newsweek Magazine. “We don’t see the Catholic Church as a hotbed of this or a place that has a bigger problem than anyone else. I can tell you without hesitation that we have seen cases in many religious settings, from traveling evangelists to mainstream ministers to rabbis and others.”

But neither is sex abuse a distinctly religious problem. A 2004 report from USA Dept of Education indicated that one out of ten public school students experience some kind of unwanted sexual advance from an educator. Two-thirds of those students say the advance involved some kind of physical contact. According to the report’s author, “more than 4.5 million students are subject to sexual misconduct by an employee of a school sometime between kindergarten and twelfth grade.”

In nearly all cases, opportunities for minor sexual abuse arise when an adult is alone with a child and is already accepted as an authority figure to be obeyed. This explains why churches, synagogues, and schools are such ripe environments for abuse. This also explains why Catholic clergy sex abuses dropped dramatically after 2002 when the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops and Catholic dioceses enacted “safe environment policies” that prohibited adults from being alone with minors except in approved situations.

In UK The Independent Enquiry Child Sex abuse was published in 2022.

https://www.iicsa.org.uk/recommendations.html

Instead of throwing stones at the Catholic Church why not ask your MP why this enquiry has taken so long to be published - some 20 years after the USCCB took action in USA?
The Anglican Church did not instigate it's Safe Spaces Policy until 2020.

In UK Child abuse was most likely to have been perpetrated by a friend or acquaintance (37%); around a third (30%) were sexually abused by a stranger.

She was blacklisted by 'Saturday Night Live'.

How is that the fault of the Catholic Church?

It was a decision by the organisers of Saturday Night Live.

"Saturday Night Live claims that they knew nothing about this protest, that in the dress rehearsal she held up a photo of a refugee child and did not rip it up. The backlash Sinead faced was immediate."

I never said it was. But she was blacklisting for drawing attention to the actions of the Catholic church. This thread is about the actions if the Catholic Church. How is that disrespectful?

@Thelastwaltz

How many other organisations had complete policies and practices that put people at risk? That enabled the abuse? Then coverd it up and paid off parents as long as they agreed to a non disclosure?

Not just sexual abuse, verbal and physical abuse, not just of children but of others?

The ban on both abaortion and contraception in Ireland. The ban on divorce that was only lifted in the mid 1990s?

Girls being told they cannot use tampons bgecause they might enjoy the experience?

Girls with horrendous periods not allowed to go on the pill by RC parents?

A whole new generation of thalidomide children in South America because priests tell women not to use contraception.

The spread of AIDS through Africa because of the same policy?

So you are saying that Saturday Night Live was in cahoots with the Catholic Church?

Really ?

No.

It's disrespectful to all those who have suffered abuse by any other institutions /means who, have been conveniently been forgotten when the OP organised this 'pity party' - 'my abuse was worse than yours' etc.

So we're not allowed to talk about the abuse caused by one organisation without mentioning every other organisation now?

What is actually disrespectful is describing people talking about the abuse they and their family have suffered at the hands of the Catholic Church as a pity party.

@sashh
Girls with horrendous periods not allowed to go on the pill by RC parents?

That would be a misunderstanding on the part of the parents. It is not part of the Catechism of RCC.
"Medical treatments used for the purpose of treating or alleviating a medical condition that also have a birth-control effect (that is not willed) are acceptable."

A whole new generation of thalidomide children in South America because priests tell women not to use contraception.
That's poppycock.

Not using contraception doesn't cause thalidomide babies in South America anymore than it does here.
A new scientific study seen exclusively by the BBC indicates that the drug Thalidomide is still causing birth defects in Brazil today. It's been given to people suffering from leprosy to ease some of their symptoms, and some women have taken it unaware of the risks they run when pregnant.
So blame the medical profession in South America for that one, not the RCC.

The 'Tampons and Tea" advert in Eire was banned for several reason none of them being religious.

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/tampax-television-commercial-banned-ireland

@AnorLondo So we're not allowed to talk about the abuse caused by one organisation without mentioning every other organisation now?

I think the topic of abuse should be not confined to the acts of one organisation, no.

To encourage people who have suffered abuse to air it as a 'tribute to a deceased person' to me is ghoulish. It helps no-one.

@Thelastwaltz

Why don't you want people to talk about the abuse carried out and covered up by the Catholic Church?

@Anthillveggie Where did I say that ??

Thelastwaltz - well, people can discuss what they like.

I, as an abuse survivor, would like to and have contributed to this discussion, even though it is slanted to Ireland and the Catholic Church and Sinead O'Connor - I feel an affinity with most abuse survivors tbh, wherever they come from, and I have found it special to contribute to this. Ireland and Sinead have their place and it's good to have a special discussion just for them. I am still very very sad that Sinead has died and I honour all she came from and stood for.

The part where you said discussing it is disrespectful would seem to imply it.

Forcing all schools to teach a national RE curriculum – even if Catholic RE were taught in addition – is a way to bring about the closure of Catholic schools. This is because you would effectively be forcing Catholic schools to teach a state-imposed version of what the Catholic faith is – something the Catholic community would find totally unacceptable. Those who oppose Catholic schools understand this, and are therefore fervent supporters of a national RE curriculum.
A Catholic school, which is provided and part-funded by the Catholic community, should be able to teach Catholicism in the method in which it sees fit, not at the government’s direction. This is non-negotiable for Catholics, and we have always been very clear on this.

You are mistaken.

People being invited to air their instances of Catholic-based abuse as an honour to a great woman is disrespectful. It's disrespectful to the artist and her family and disrespectful to the victims.

Please tell me when should abuse be ever used to honour someone??

@something2say - well, people can discuss what they like.

Not on a public forum they can't because there are certain laws restricting what people can say.

(What you want to say down the pub is a different matter).

There is a time and place for everything and I think when Ms O'Connor has only been dead 3 days and her family are still grieving, there should be some respect shown.

When that person was known for speaking out against that abuse despite the damage to her career and threats of violence that came as a result.

Do you go on other threads where people share abuse stories and call it a pity party? Or is it just when the abuse was from an organisation your a member of?

Thankfully, despite what some people would like, there are no laws in the UK preventing the criticism of the Catholic Church or speaking about abuse.

Thankfully, despite what some people would like, there are no laws in the UK preventing the criticism of the Catholic Church or speaking about abuse.

I never said there was.

But as I said, there is a time and place for everything.

When I said I honoured all Sinead came from and stood for, I mean I honour the path she walked and how she walked it and where she came from and what she came through - don't twist it.

@Thelastwaltz

You have dominated this thread by trying to silence people. Whether you believe this thread is in poor taste is frankly irrelevant; there are many post on MN I find in poor taste but doesn’t make them ‘illegal’.

You are hounding posters to the point of trolling. Perhaps it is YOU who should respect others who want to tell their stories.

I don't believe there is any bad time or place to speak up about abuse. If you think that they're is, you don't have to read the thread. You can find some other abuse survivors to criticise.

There absolutely is a time and a place for everything @Thelastwaltz yet you seem to have spectacularly misjudged your posts on this one.

Well why didn't you say that?

Don't blame me for 'twisting' when you haven't expressed yourself properly.

And how do you think people reporting historic abuse would "honour her path", really, I'm interested to know?