The Roman Catholic Church

[Orfuln]

Following the death of Sinead O'Connor.

Obviously the acts and crimes of this church are vast and can't be contained to one place. But in honour of a great woman, if you find it in yourself, give your testimony here.

Mine : my father was institutionalised, brutalised and brainwashed in childhood by the Catholic organisation who schooled him following the death of his father. He was an unhappy and violent man who didn't understand family relationships and consequently my own childhood was blighted with violence and misery. I did however learn my catechism very well. I now absolutely reject it.

*entered therapy, sorry

We did the R.E. syllabus that included the Catholic paper (as we called it), yes.

I know you didn't say otherwise, but we were encouraged to apply critical thinking and analysis in our responses, even in opposition to R.C teachings, and were not marked down for this, though some of my friends and I did check in advance that this would be the case.

My experience of Catholic school includes convent schools and those in the private sector, occasionally state.

Catholic paper is syllabus B, I’ve only taught A, but does it include Humanism ?

Yes. I think what I said may have been taken out of context a bit.

My comment "all those subjects are taught just as they are in other schools" was in reply to a pp who said
"...my other issue is how can religious schools adequately teach subjects like history, science and even art, all would be educating from a highly biased standpoint?"

So I was referring to subjects like science, history, art in my reply to pp.

Obviously the RE curriculum will be different. (My experience of schools is in Ireland also, not the UK)

I can’t teach RE in a Catholic school despite 30 year’s experience as I’m not one

Hate the Catholic Church, and not been too taken with some of the Catholic views I’ve had to tolerate in my life. My foster brother spent time in a children’s home run by Catholic nuns. They were evil disguised as good. Thankfully they were all closed some years later when the horrors surfaced. Our local Catholic priest is an absolute wanker, no empathy or compassion, just a bloody big ego from being worshipped by the local congregation.

A relative ran an eating disorder clinic in the 80s. The teenaged girls attending at the time were all either in private school or Catholic school.

I could go on but the pious face versus the reality sticks on my craw. I

@DismantledKing

and what does that tell you?

@Antoninus why would you want to if you are not a practicing Catholic? Seriously, I do not understand this complaint - you have all the other schools to choose from so why focus on that. I’m unlikely to get a job in a Jewish or Islamic school or believe it or not, CofE. Why make the point about Catholic schools?

Thank you for sharing this. I never heard this story. Poor Ann, poor Patricia and that poor family. I wonder if the boy/man who fathered the baby knew it was him? He must have done. And has presumably been living with the secret all of these years.

@LeonardCohensRaincoat

Presumably @Antoninus wouldn't need to be a practising anything to teach an RE syllabus anywhere else. It's not supposed to be about indoctrination.

Slightly differently, when I was (a non catholic) teaching GCSE Child Development in an RC school I wasn't allowed to cover the contraception bit. They all had to troop off to the unmarried (and I seriously doubt she'd ever been sexually intimate) senior mistress and be lectured in the RC way of making babies, or not. The kids were hilariously scornful about it saying all their parents used contraception and how ridiculous it was. And it was.

I can see why it would be helpful, even essential, to be Catholic to teach R.E. in Catholic schools. It's all very well being familiar with Catholic teaching and doctrine, but you're better placed to teach, and relate to the pupils, if you're also a Catholic and have a personal knowledge and experience. I'd bet there would be gaps in knowledge you wouldn't be aware of.

I’m unlikely to get a job in a Jewish or Islamic school or believe it or not, CofE. Why make the point about Catholic schools?

This. I have taught R.E ( briefly in a private Catholic school over 20 years ago) but it wouldn't cross my mind to apply for a position in one of the above as I doubt I would be successful.

Good for you @something2say . Sorry to hear your story

Thank you x

The Catholic Church as an institution is evil.
They have fought tooth and nail to have various scandals exposed and to meet recompense and restitution.
A decent institution would have dealt with the scandals when first exposed. Instead they covered them up.
My sister demonstrated in support of a priest jailed for sexually abusing many children. She still does not believe he was guilty and talks of catholics being persecuted.

Yes awful. This is how the church operates. Cover up until it can no longer be denied.

I'm glad you finally felt able to report @something2say

wishing you well for the future

Because you’re not allowed to discriminate, and yet they get away with it. A colleague was baptised RC recently purely to apply for a leadership role in a Catholic school.

Unless that colleague isn’t telling you the full story around their faith/belief they have made a huge mistake getting baptised just for a job. This stuff is taken very seriously in the RCChurch as it’s a sacrament. She will also have to take HC & confirmation - all for a job that is not unique? Why didn’t she go to another school?

You know, a lot of the problems in the Church are down to them being the main employer in certain fields so people compromised their personal beliefs in order to get a job ( Ireland is a good example). Then when they should have spoken up or addressed an issue, they shirk away saying not my problem- I’m not really Catholic or don’t believe yet the whole point is a place of faith - no one forced your friend there.

Its shocking to me that someone does this kind of manipulation- how f*ked up is that in a country full of private, secular, free, alternates schools.

You are pissing all over someone else’s faith and it might be the only thing they have working in their life for them. I hope you and your colleague discover your consciences one day - you don’t need to be there and are being so disrespectful to a community that has invited you to be part of it despite not sharing the faith.

I’m actually annoyed at the schools for employing you - this is going to open the way to a more conservative approach for Catholics of real faith as they try to hold on to their space and make it harder for the moderates who make up a lot if the community here.

I don't know the legalities of this at all, but my understanding is that there are sometimes certain exemptions from particular parts of equality legislation. For example, a Chinese restaurant is allowed to preferentially hire Chinese people when they're recruiting...that sort of thing. Is that not correct? Wouldn't religious schools - of any denomination- be subject to the same sort of exemptions?

I think it's fair when Catholic schools represent a minority of schools such as in the UK. I'm in Ireland where about 89% of schools at primary level are still Catholic (though all newer ones are multi - denominational). That certainly could be a problem for a primary teacher who isn't Catholic and I don't know how it's addressed to be honest.

The situation is a bit different at secondary level here where there are fewer Catholic schools, still a large minority though.

As an aside, the schools themselves have a Catholic ethos, but they are mostly staffed and run by lay people these days, most of whom aren't particularly religious I'd say. And as I said earlier, religion is no longer a criterion for admission to Catholic schools in Ireland. But I'm not sure how the teachers fare.

Because you’re not allowed to discriminate, and yet they get away with it. A colleague was baptised RC recently purely to apply for a leadership role in a Catholic school.

I find that hard to believe, if that's what they told you. I don't see how that would work out well for them or the school.

Not all of the secondary level teachers are Catholic. The R.E. teachers are usually, certainly, but I doubt you'd be able to teach the detail needed about Catholicism without the background.

Same for many other religious schools anyway.

It's incredibly rare to have anyone in a senior role at an RC school who isn't a practicing catholic.

It isn't just RE teaching an RC teacher will be given prefernce for teaaching maths, art, history... everything.

i think it’s because we can put it into context within the faith. So, the academic strands are all the body of knowledge that helps us understand the world but it all sits within a larger framework that is considered the faith. The children understand this and relate to it. I noticed that they are ask me if I am Catholic in Catholic schools and seem more relaxed when they know I am. I think they want to see how you can combine modern living and education with a faith and do ask the personal questions which I answer truthfully. It’s a community and not a regular school in that sense. You would see those families at mass and out of school and are meant to be a community of faith.

I know that we all knew the non Catholic teachers at school and felt humiliated by them at times - a lot of them wanted to be there because it was an easy ride but actually, they couldn’t engage with the issues we knew we had to resolve within the faith.

Sorry, last paragraph referred to when I was a pupil at school

It's incredibly rare to have anyone in a senior role at an RC school who isn't a practicing catholic.

True

It isn't just RE teaching an RC teacher will be given prefernce for teaaching maths, art, history... everything.

I don't disagree. The number who weren't Catholic were in a minority.

Though we had a non Catholic librarian. Rumour had it she was dismissed for telling the children about her atheism and why she didn't believe in god. I think the truth was more to do with budgets, though parental complaints had been received about what she had said to some children.