The Roman Catholic Church

[Orfuln]

Following the death of Sinead O'Connor.

Obviously the acts and crimes of this church are vast and can't be contained to one place. But in honour of a great woman, if you find it in yourself, give your testimony here.

Mine : my father was institutionalised, brutalised and brainwashed in childhood by the Catholic organisation who schooled him following the death of his father. He was an unhappy and violent man who didn't understand family relationships and consequently my own childhood was blighted with violence and misery. I did however learn my catechism very well. I now absolutely reject it.

it is precisely this institutional complexity and multileveled breadth that renders the Catholic hierarchy uniquely well positioned to play meaningful roles at all levels of politics: local, national, and global.

You say that like it's a good thing.

@ElizaMulvil Most rulers (including popes and catholic/protestant/other kings and queens etc.) didn't seem to worry about murdering, maiming, exploiting their people in every way so obviously in their hearts didn't fear or believe in the ( whatever) religion they were foisting on others.

So are you including rulers of ; Islam/Buddism/Seikhism/Shintoism/Jainism/Judaism/Shinto/ Sikhism/ Taoism, and Zoroastrianism?
Otherwise it could be construed that your answer is biased?

No church should be playing ANY role in politics. That’s a massive problem, imo.

The Catholic Church has far too much money and power. That’s how they’re able to hide criminals within their ranks, and escape any accountability as an organization, including refusing to hand over documents to investigators.

@ChubbyMorticia

The Catholic Church has far too much money and power. That’s how they’re able to hide criminals within their ranks, and escape any accountability as an organization, including refusing to hand over documents to investigators.

such as? I thought they had opened Everything up?

@ChubbyMorticia No church should be playing ANY role in politics. That’s a massive problem, imo.

So you would not have supported the Bishops Program for Social Reconstruction in USA 1919, aimed at helping the poor?

Or the Catholic Worker Movement of 1930 where Priests actively encouraged workers to join Trade Unions ?

Do you decry national education, hospitals, hospices, full time youth workers? all these were started with or are run by church and other faith groups in UK.

In 1942 Archbishop William Temple wrote a wonderful book called Christianity and Social Order. Even in the depths of the World War II struggle against tyranny, he knew that God’s care for the poor, and for all of society, meant that after the war there must be a more just society than in the 1930s.
He was old friends with William Beveridge, a top civil servant and another Christian, who wrote his great report that designed the welfare system, the health service and much of what we now take for granted in social care.

Do you think that the Church should not have intervened here?

Thelastwaltz
I've already explained it twice, I'm not doing it again.

Where?

@ferona It looks like it was Waltz's post deleted for breaking guidelines so I won't quote and wouldn't like to in any case. It concerned posts here sharing abuse.

Ah, so you saw it! I think it might have been because you've incidentally/accidentally part-quoted their deleted post by using their wording. That would be my guess.

I'm shocked they've been allowed to continue posting on the thread after that. It was beyond the pale.

Christians believe ( according to the Bible) Jesus said 'it is easier for a camel to pass though the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven'.

Do we think the late Queen is languishing in Hell?

Do we think this is what keeps/kept our current and previous - Kings. Queens/ Heads / rich members of catholic, CotE churches / current and past catholic kIngs /queens/ popes- etc. awake at night?

Or do we think they're not bothered / don't believe that at all and the late queen just doesn't exist anymore - she is , to coin a phrase 'dead'.

I get your point op but the church was so entangled in the state in Ireland and other countries like Italy that the same criticisms that apply to the state apply to it - some awful things, some good things.

Personally my parents were educated by catholic nuns and monks and got a better education than they'd otherwise have had, I went to Catholic schools and got a better education than I'd otherwise have had.

I wouldn't downplay the horrendous things the church has done and I wouldn't raise my own kids as Catholics, but the picture is much more complicated than Catholic = evil. I think it's fair to say that in some times and places the Catholic church was powerful that very bad things went unmentioned and unpunished.

The fact that some people in the catholic church have done good things does not alter the fact that it is by its very nature and structure of absolute power ( pope), an anti democratic, authoritarian, brain washing, abusive, misogynistic organisation with no place in a modern democratic society.

If you don't like it, don't join it - membership isn't compulsory, you know. 🙂

I think that far too often it’s presented as such

Say what? If it doesn't involve quoting something you're not meant to quote!

Membership of the RCC is compulsory ?? Where?

Cult members are never wrong, never see reason, and do not acknowledge the views or arguments of others.

Some ultra conservative Catholics are in this category. Believe me I have an in law like this. I like him as a person but I refuse to engage when politics or religion emerge as a topic of conversation. He is a member of Opus Dei and other Catholic organisations. They get a lot of their funding from super conservative Catholic organisations in the U.S.

He is always right and every argument about a God who is not that benevolent (wars, kids, disasters etc.) is met with the mantra "Free Will", it seems to be a get out clause for everything that's wrong with views that counter the received wisdom. It may be a tenet of the CC but it is arguable too. No so with some of these people, and it can be quite unsettling sometimes to be met with such stonewalling. He is also big into the Magisterium of the CC. Not many folk may even know it exists, but if you check it out, it is where decisions on tradition and interpretation of scripture are decided. No I never heard of it either.

Anyway, I do not support organised religion of any hue. Far too much money, power and influence abound with the lot of them.

But you're advocating for the RC church to have political clout. To influence policy that affects everyone, not just Catholics.

I wasn't aware I wasn't allowed to quote anything.

This comment is somewhat disingenuous. This thread isn’t simply allowing discussion of ‘anti-Catholic sentiments and sectarianism’. Most of the people on this thread are discussing their own lived experiences or those of close family members. Not allowing these sorts these sorts of discussions or any sort of criticism of wrongdoing in any religion is exactly why these abhorrent abuses continued unchallenged for such a long time.

But how much of that was the church vs the department of education? The church policed the morals for sure but who set the curriculum? But entangled is definitely the right word.

I thought you were referring to something deleted. I was just curious about what was said.

I never said that the RCC should have 'political clout' at all - where did I say that ??
I said they are well-placed to influence some spheres of life.