Was the young Queen Victoria incredibly beautiful or nay?

[MorrisZapp]

Movies and TV suggest she was stunning as a young woman, but all the pictures of her that are widely familiar today are of a plain fizzog.

Was she hot or not?

There is a marked resemblance to Beatrice in that photo. I think Beatrice is very striking and has grown into her looks. Not attractive in the modern sense.

That's victorian beauty standards though - where we (modern times) value a sculptured face and lean body, the victorians valued a rounded face because to be thin was to be poor (and so unable to buy food).

Most of the Royal Family were attractive in their youth, certainly Andrew and Edward were, but none of them seem to age well. Charles now looks much older than 74. And poor William has already lost most of his hair!

Exactly. It feeds the contemporary fascination with Anne Boleyn, too, because we don’t have any authenticated portraits of her made during her lifetime (just posthumous ones prob based on a lost portrait), and her looks and sexual attractiveness had such an effect on the politics of her day that they were endlessly described, and the posthumous portraits don’t reflect 21st c ideas of beauty.

Andrew and edward were not attractive, neither was Charles. They just dressed well. All teeth, nose and neck.

Beatrice just looks like Sarah.

and her looks and sexual attractiveness had such an effect on the politics of her day that they were endlessly described
don't you think that we wasn't seen as attractive then, and that the descriptions were trying to account for Henry's obsession with her?

Yes they were. All the descriptions of Anne Boleyn show that she was not a beauty by the conventions of the time i.e she wasn't blonde and blue eyed and fair skinned. She was sallow skinned with moles (regarded as a blemish) and she was flat chested rather than buxom. So what, the question was on everyone's lips and in all the diplomats despatches, was her secret?

I’m torn between feeling uncomfortable with pulling apart the looks of a living woman who might conceivably go on Mumsnet (what with having a small child) and absolutely fascinated by the pictures of Princess Beatrice dressed as a Victorian!

All the Yorks - Eugenie, Beatrice and Andrew - have markedly Hanoverian features. Pss Margaret also had the bulging Hanoverian blue eyes. There's a portrait of George III's sister Caroline Matildathat is the image of Beatrice, as well.

She was exotic (French influence), sexy, intelligent and quick witted. That counts for more than mere beauty. The most hypnotic people aren't usually ugly, but they aren't usually the most stunning in the room either. It's something else.

After her, he moved on to Jane Seymour who appeared to be much her polar opposite. She was known for many virtues, but being a stunner and a charmer wasn't among them. Henry thought she was utterly without guile. Was she really? The debate continues. I've always thought opening and closing the locket Henry gave her, while in Anne's presence, suggests she wasn't completely sweet and innocent.

Anne was a courtier to her fingertips. Witty, charming, amusing, a good conversationalist. Unfortunately the qualities that attracted in a mistress weren't what HVIII wanted in a wife - especially when she was a better debater than him.

Jane Seymour is fascinating. Did she have any agency or was she pushed by her family? How did she feel about being Henry's wife after seeing the fate of her predecessor? everything I've read suggests she thought Anne deserved her fate, but she's the ultimate nullity, isn't she?

Edward was never considered attractive

Andrew was the only men ever considered middle attractive- of course the rumours being that he has less of the family genes than his 'siblings'

She did once approach Henry to beg him to spare the monasteries and was sent away with a flea in her ear and a reminder of what happened to the last queen who meddled in the affairs of kings. She never mentioned politics again, wisely.

I don't think she was a master manipulator in the deadly game of Tudor chess. But I don't think she was completely without agency either.

Anne's fate might not have put her off, but after she died, it certainly counted against him when he sought the next wife. Who would marry a man who abandons one wife and takes the head of the next one? And who always seems to have a way of nullifying a marriage when it no longer suits him?

Yes, another history what-if. What if Jane Seymour hadn't died so soon?

As long as Edward lived, she would have been invincible.

It could be that being dressed well accounts for a lot of it. They're not my personal idea of attractive anyway.

I can't objectively see that the odious Andrew was ever attractive, but I think that's more to do with his behaviour and character.

Poor Anne. I wonder if it would have saved her, after all, if she'd given birth to a son.

Of course.

As a courtier said: "She hath miscarried of her saviour."

No she wasn’t

But people get silly over the royals then as they do now and will claim they are striking looking when really they are not

look at the threads about Princess Anne

Very true @HRTQueen. The current bunch of royals are not unattractive but I doubt they'd be raved over if they weren't royal. The lookers are those who married in - Kate, Meghan, Edo. And Mike 😜

I think part of the problem with Anne of Cleves was that Henry had been so keen to marry Christina of Milan (and her people said no - as he’d had a fairly dubious marital history). Anne of Cleves was older and much less pretty.

Mike! He’s certainly not good looking.

Edward looks quite sweet here!

Sorry, but whatever Andrew turned out to be, he was hot as a young man.

Good grief. Whatever floats your boat I guess.