Was the young Queen Victoria incredibly beautiful or nay?

[MorrisZapp]

Movies and TV suggest she was stunning as a young woman, but all the pictures of her that are widely familiar today are of a plain fizzog.

Was she hot or not?

I think it depends on whether we judge her by modern of Victorian standards. Undoubtedly a lot of her parenting would be unacceptable today but was standard for the time. Children obeying their parents throughout their life was expected in those days. I don’t really agree they were terrified of her - several of them were very close to her, and Bertie certainly wasn’t intimidated enough by either parent to moderate his behaviour. They certainly obeyed her and gave in to her wishes much more than modern children would do, but that was standard.

I read a theory that the haemophilia in the royal family was evidence that Victoria was illegitimate- it never occurred in the family before her, and was common in the family of someone her mother was very close to (her secretary maybe?). Also, the disease George III had happened many times in the family before her, but never after …

I have two issues with those theories. One, Victoria's mother was devoted to her husband and her letters say how happy she is with him. AN Wilson theorised that she might have had an affair because of concerns over the duke of Kent's fertility, but she was pregnant pretty soon after they married so IMO that doesn't stand up. The other is that we don't actually know what George III suffered from. It might have been porphyria, it might have been something else. Genes can mutate spontaneously (I've a blood condition caused by that happening) so the same might have been the cause of the haemophilia Vic's sons suffered from.

This is the most interesting thread I've read on MN for ages.

Yes, and also her appearance and how it was viewed will also reflect the ideals of female beauty prized in her lifetime.

My students are always disappointed at photographs of the ‘muse’ to whom many poems by a poet I teach are dedicated — she was at the height of her fame in the 1890s and early 1900s, and to my students is too voluptuous, tall, giant-haired, Juno-esque, big-featured etc. Very much a classic beauty of her day.

I thought porphyria (if that's what it was) came down from Mary Queen of Scots.
Apparently it was disrespectful for doctors to directly question their royal patients. All they could do was examine their urine.

Victoria was quite progressive and at the same time contradictory. She didn't see why women should suffer in childbirth but called the agitation for women's rights 'mad.'

I think we focus so much on the Tudors because we have Holbein's portraits.
If you check out Christina of Denmark's other portraits, compared to Holbein's wonderful portrait, you see a very different woman.

. She didn't see why women should suffer in childbirth
I think that she felt that SHE shouldn't suffer in childbirth. And good for her.

I thought the porphyria thing was now widely thought to have been made up as it sounded more palatable than bipolar or whatever mental health condition they now suspect George suffered from.

She didn't think women were fit for government, either. 🙄

well, there's always more theories. That's one of the things that makes history so interesting.
But a mental health condition wouldn't give you purple urine (one of the symptoms of porphyria).

She didn't think women were fit for government, either.
That's OK though, isn't it. Thinking that, she knuckled down and got on with the job.
Seeing as all this is pre-Reform Act, she probably thought most men weren't fit for government as well.
The past is another country, and all that.

@Georgyporky · Yesterday 18:42
The Royal Family are not noted for their good looks.

You must be so young you don't remember them when they were young and beautiful! :-) Plenty of them were famous for their looks, figure and style .

George V was handsome in youth, as were his sons Edward V111 (the one who abdicated) and George V1 (father of Q Elizabeth) The late queen was a beauty with a glorious smile and figure; and so was her sister Margaret. The Duke of Edinburgh was an absolute stud in his heyday, both looks and physique. He and the queen produced two very goodlookers (in their younger day), Anne and Andrew; Charles was less fortunate.

😂😂

I have made codpieces. They’re padded on the outside, not hollow, so how big you make it wouldn’t make any difference to how it feels on the inside.

I have made codpieces

Now there's a phrase I didn't expect to read.

I think it’s the combination of Holbein and more widespread literacy, so for the first time we have access to people’s intimate words as well as a near photographic record of how they looked.

true, I hadn't thought of that countess

Also, the rise of Humanism in Northern Europe, I suppose.

Charles was all right.

He had the "hot nerd" look. Perhaps not classically handsome in a regal way, but I think he was attractive. Maybe more Clark Kent than Superman.

As @RitzyMcFitzy says, the porphyria theory has been challenged. Many doctors/scientists think that King George III had bipolar disorder and Alzheimer's disease. They also suggest that James VI and I (son of Mary Queen of Scots) had autistic specrum disorder. Ref here: https://academic.oup.com/clinchem/article/58/3/643/5620588
and https://www.rcpe.ac.uk/sites/default/files/peters_0.pdf

Other scientists suggest that Mary Queen of Scots herself suffered from anorexia nervosa as a teenager. This is a very old paper but still believed: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3912990/

I always thought that Princess Beatrice had a look of Victoria. I went to Google it and noticed a few others are of the same opinion.

I remember she played a Lady-in-Waiting in Emily Blunt’s ‘Young Victoria’ and when you see her all dressed up in Victorian attire she really could have been the perfect casting (minus the strawberry blonde hair).

I saw him very close up when he was a young man . I was surprised by how attractive he was in the flesh.

Another comparison of Victoria & Beatrice.

I know some people don’t consider Beatrice attractive but she has gorgeous eyes and hair.

Yes, you can see similarities in the features there.

The modern royals appear to have similarly strong features as they age. Though, from photos posted here in the past, I believe Edward was quite handsome in his youth. I can see Charles was possibly slightly so too, and I think he looked quite similar to the younger actor (Josh O'Connor) who played him in The Crown.