Anyone got a Scout or Explorer going to WSJ in South Korea?

[lazylittlelucy]

Just thought I'd start a thread for parents if there are any on here.
My 17yo DD is going as an Explorer and is getting excited now.
Anyone else?

I'd say being on a drip isn't exactly the minor 'bit of heatstroke and fly bites' it's been made out to be really.

And given they had noticed on the medical centre saying closed and a lack of equipment I think they were lucky there wasn't anything a lot more serious.

The fact that heatstroke was an issue in Japan in 2015 and the Korean bid stated they would stop this by having a forest of trees on the site (which wouldn't grow and died in the salty soil) it's doubly worse.

To be fair, drips are routinely prescribed to children for diarrhoea and vomiting in many parts of the world. I was quite shocked at how sick they'll allow a child to become in the UK before they consider it.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12398735/Scout-SHAMboree-Mosquitos-snakes-rotten-food-thousands-hospitalised-GUY-ADAMS-investigates.html

Some are taking it in their stride. Olaf Clayton says: ‘There have been very big wobbly moments but she’s now having a great time and learning the Scout lesson that not everything always goes according to plan.’ But others are definitely not. A major Korean law firm, EJE Law, is now seeking to pursue a class-action lawsuit on behalf of disgruntled Scouts; organisers face a creeping misconduct scandal.

And

When Korea successfully bid to host the Jamboree, in 2017, organisers promised to create a ‘lush forest’ across the site, providing a cool shaded area where participants could relax, make friends and enjoy wholesome Scouting activities.
^^
A year later, they hit a problem: the soil was too salty for any trees to grow. The back-up plan was to replace the ‘lush forest’ with a collection of gazebos, but only 1,700 were installed — one for every 26 people attending.
^^
A second problem was how to get 45,000 visitors around the vast site, which is twice the size of the Glastonbury Festival.
^^
Organisers had promised a fleet of shuttle buses but only 13 turned up. That left participants with no option but to walk extended distances in the heat of the day.
^^
The main pedestrian thoroughfare through the site was supposed to be a 7km path covered with vines, creating a shaded walkway. But, like the missing trees, the vines also failed to grow.

Even if sunstroke didn't get you, finding your way around was tough. 'The place was flat, everything looked the same, most tents were identical and the signposts were rubbish,' reports one British dad. 'So people spent half their time getting lost and walking miles in circles.'

AND

News quickly began to reach parents back home, who started leaving fraught messages on the Jamboree’s Facebook page. ‘My son’s troop [are sleeping] on the ground because they don’t have a campsite, tents, nor cots or gear,’ wrote Kristin Windu, the mother of a U.S. attendee.

‘They seem to be in good spirits for now but I’m heartbroken for this dream to be turning into a nightmare. And my wallet paid a hearty price for this chaos.’

Ricardo Viesca, father of a Scout from Mexico, added: ‘Groups from Australia and the UK got into a brawl because there were not enough platforms to pitch their tents and they were filled with water and mud. It is intensely hot. Please do something!’

AND

Scouts awoke the next morning to find they had to brush their teeth in dirty sanitation blocks where the toilets were already backed up with human waste and showers were refusing to drain.

‘The showers are in tents and people can see inside them. Some toilets are mixed-sex and some are filthy as they have not been cleaned,’ wrote one father on the Jamboree’s Facebook page. ‘It is a dereliction of duty.’ As pictures of filthy lavatories and overflowing rubbish bins began to hit social media, it emerged that just 70 cleaners had been hired to keep the facilities clean.

AND

Andrew Brocklesby, a Scout leader from Australia, told reporters: ‘We’ve had 25 per cent of our unit in repeat hospital visits for dehydration.’ One of his troop said: ‘Every time we put sunscreen on, it feels like we’re exfoliating because we’re just covered in sand.’

The Brits had by now decided to jump ship and return to Seoul. ‘They had to wait four hours for a bus, in no shade,’ says Olaf Clayton. ‘Seven people fainted and were taken away in ambulances.

Obviously going to be the worst of the worst on this, but the one point that strikes me is the sheer size of the place. Glastonbury is huge. It generally takes the best part of half an hour to walk one side to the other due to the size and number of people.

I wonder how this would have played out if it had happened 15+ years ago when social media was not such a major force and the people on site would not have been posting online (or even in contact with home) during the event.

Because I can think of previous large scale events with many of the same issues outlined here - except they didn't have the same visibility because nobody was posting about it online and most participants had no contact with home during the event.

No option for them to leave, pressured to tough it out, and organisers got away with it. I do wonder if some of those previous events might also have been halted/evacuated if there had been more visibility online of how bad things were on site.

Against that history, I can understand how this year's organisers might have thought they could get away with a half arsed approach. There's never really been any accountability before.

Hopefully this will change things for the better in future and nobody will be expected to politely smile through deplorable conditions during a WS event again.

An excellent point @swanling
There could have been many more severe illnesses and even tragedies without social media, quite scary to think about.
Although I assume the Scout authorities like WOSM would still have had to get involved.

The only event I can recall with this many issues was the I'll fated Fyre Festival .

And the organisers went to jail.

Where this differs is that it involves minors in the care of an organisation so have no ability to leave of their own accord and there is a minimum expecting of safeguarding present.

Previous events may have had one or two issues but not as many as the multiple issues present here.

Even the likes of Glasto (the 1997/8 mud years) or Reading and Leeds (the riot years) haven't been as plagued with as many issues and they certainly were not foreseen in the same way nor were the participants as young.

Arena style events simply don't have only one entrance and exit these days in Europe. There have been issues with people being unaware of alternative exits but there simply wasn't any in Korea.

Genuinely struggling to think of an event with SO MANY problems even before the advent of social media within the last 30years.

A lot smaller scale... Charnwood International camp 2019 had to abandoned due to the mud. But that was just weather, not incompetence I believe.

Going back a lot further.... DH was on a scout camp as a Scout about 20-25years ago that burnt down!

there was a typhoon at the jamboree in japan in 1971 - they had to be evacuated - the 13th world scout jamboree

I was thinking specifically of world scout camps as a large scale event within scouting, rather than large scale events in the general population.

That's interesting, I didn't know that. I wonder if that influenced any of the planning for Japan 2015.

I'm a Girlguides leader (Brownies) we sent a couple of Rangers to WSJ25, it was well advertised with GG but also in the local press to.

Some of my Brownies are already on about wanting to do the Poland one in 2027 (they'll be old enough by then).

Are any of your jamboree scouts/explorers/IST coming home today?

DD's unit is still in Seoul, visiting DMZ, then something else tomorrow and home on Tuesday. Will be v interesting to hear about their experiences first hand.

Mine has just landed in Bangkok.
Sadly missed the DMZ abut did make it to Legoland #priorities

https://m.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20230813000120

The official investigation into the Jamboree will begin with a probe by the Board of Audit and Inspection. The BAI is expected to launch an audit as early as this week to clarify where responsibility lies for the event's overall mismanagement.

And

Whether the budget allocation was appropriate is one of the biggest questions to be answered.

According to the organizing committee on Saturday, the budget, which was originally 49.1 billion won ($36.8 million) at the time of the venue's selection in 2017, more than doubled to 117.1 billion won while preparing for the event. After the World Scout Jamboree kicked off and concerns were raised about hygiene issues and a heat wave, an additional 6.9 billion won was urgently allocated.

As participants were relocated due to the threat of Typhoon Khanun, additional funds were spent on alternative accommodations, food and transportation, leaving the final budget yet to be confirmed.

This contrasts with the Yamaguchi Jamboree held in Japan in 2015, which had a price tag of only about 39.5 billion won, according to the Japan Scout Association, although it was held on reclaimed land just like the Saemangeum Jamboree.

https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=356925

Depending on who you ask, the arrival and departure at the stadium went either smoothly or poorly.

"The closing ceremony was poorly organized at the beginning with it being hard to get to our seats, taking over an hour," a British Scout said on condition of anonymity, "although that was more the fault of other units not getting there quickly and generally something that was hard to avoid and was to be expected really ... It took over an hour to get back to the bus and over half an hour for the bus to set off once we got onto it so that was a bit of a hassle but overall the day went fine."

"The arrival at the arena and the departure went OK," said a German Scout. "You can say they learned out of the chaotic opening ceremony (on Aug. 2 at Saemangeum) because the organization was pretty good in all."

"I heard and saw people coming in when the closing ceremony was about to close," a Scout from a Nordic country said.

AND

"Although it was packed, we all got food and free gifts," said the British Scout, "which included bricks, plushies, figurines ― and everyone got ponchos and flashing lights."

"The food provided at the closing ceremony was pretty OK ― some sweet and salty snacks," the German said. "But the mood of the people was good."

"I heard that people just didn't get their food at all," the Nordic Scout said. "We got food but there were problems with getting food for people with allergies and it has been for the entire event"

AND

All three interviewees shared observations about on aspect of the event: outsiders were allowed into the grounds around the stadium to promote controversial religious messages to the participants as they arrived and left.

"We saw a guy holding up a sign with 'Homosexuality is a sin' and he also held a big cross," said the German Scout.

"I did not see any Christians at the stadium saying anything about homosexuality being a sin, although there were Christians with megaphones shouting something but it was too loud to make out what they were saying," the British Scout said. "They gave me a leaflet which, although not containing anything about homosexuality on it, had some things on it that were threatening damnation if you don't join their version of Christianity."

I wonder whether the costs will get too prohibitive going forward, even without all the errors that were made at SK

https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=356913

Please do read this one on reflections of the event.

There's a quote about how scouts felt pressured by their escorts to give positive reviews of the event.

Theres a comment that the media did exaggerate but on the whole they were right.

And there's clearly people who didn't enjoy any of it but the company of other scouts.

crazy that the DMZ is a tourist destination,
my dd wanted to go there,

It has been for a long time. My mum went 35 years ago. She says the North Koreans were blasting military music across the divide.

Mine has returned. Verdict - way worse conditions on site than has been reported and that you could imagine. But also had the best time!

Glad your DS is home safe @CheersToMe . I would love to hear the feedback from others too. DD is not back until late Tuesday night, can't wait to see her. Seems like they are all looking forward to coming home (but not the journey).

Definitely some exhausted IST coming through arrivals. We had to stop on the way home for hot bacon sandwiches and chocolate - as an antidote to 3 weeks of soupy noodles.

Great to hear you have yours Home @CheersToMe . Our Unit aren't due in until the end of the week.
All the people I've heard from though are in the same boat - conditions on site appalling for some (our Unit included) and just "terrible" for others. UK did absolutely the right thing to move them. However have still being enjoying the time before, and the time since the Jamboree and are in awe of the IST and National volunteers as well of course of the Unit Leaders and how they have been absolute stars.

I have found the answer to the elusive 'how many toilets were there?' question!

There were 354 for 45,000 people originally. That works out at 1 to 127 people.

As someone upthread calculated Glastonbury (which has the best ratio - but is one of the longer festivals too) has 1 to 67. And previous poster calculated that WSJ would need a minimum of about 800 toilets.

That MNetter calculation turns out to be really close to what an official report from ten years ago said they would need. It reported they would need a minimum of 700 toilets.

And certainly even then a cleaning regime of just once a day would still be insufficient even if you met the minimum toilet number if you know anything about events. Jamboree also has the problem of needing separate child facilities and adult facilities and that the event was officially ten days long (but many planned to be on site for longer). Glasto is six days.

This report was written in the run up to the Jamboree bid in 2013 and was based on observations from the 2013 Asia Pacific Scout Jamboree which detailed the problems with a lack of toilets and the fact that waste was buried onsite making the toilets reek. So South Korea had the information they needed on toilets for ten years.

In 2017 a visiting delegation from Japan who had run WSJ in 2015 came to South Korea and said the most challenging thing about the event had been the toilets and keeping them clean.

WSJ 2017 had learnt from the problems in 2013 and had over 800 toilets.

Worse still:
The Saemangeum Development and Investment Agency also visited West Virginia, where the World Scout Jamboree was held in August 2019.

According to the agency's report, the Jamboree in West Virginia hosted 45,000 participants, and the campsite had 2,700 toilets installed.

The report emphasized that a similar number of bathroom stalls needed to be installed at Saemangeum to prevent the country's reputation from being fouled. It also advised stationing safety management personnel, as was the case in West Virginia.

If you would like to read more shit about Jamboree toilets it can be found here:
https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/2023-08-15/national/socialAffairs/National-reputation-soiled-by-predictable-toilet-shortage-at-Jamboree/1846666

Those toilets would have been BAD. And I now feel satisfied at answering the numbers questions I had about just how bad.

And here's something about how contracts and planning were completely useless as they were so late:
https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/2023-08-14/national/socialAffairs/North-Jeolla-accused-of-sketchy-Jamboree-contracts/1846289

According to People Power Party (PPP) lawmaker Kweon Seong-dong’s office, some of the contracts that the North Jeolla government signed regarding the construction of foundational facilities at the campsite, as well as provision of supplies, have deadlines set after the World Scout Jamboree began on Aug. 1.

Some even have construction deadlines set for the end of the year.

Among the 256 contracts that the North Jeolla government signed with private contractors, 15 had overdue deadlines set far past the official opening. While most of the 15 were services contracts, three were for constructing essential facilities.

Critics say these contracts with late deadlines may be behind the problems that plagued the Jamboree campsite at Saemangeum, including the lack of shade or cooling facilities and the unfinished drainage system that turned the venue into a muddy swamp.

The North Jeolla government has come under fire for picking the companies in the construction projects late.

The Jamboree's infrastructure plan included the construction of a 26-kilometer (16-mile) water pipe and 31-kilometer sewer system, as well as three water treatment facilities, three parking lots and 3.7-kilometers of shading.

However, the contract to build them was signed in December 2021, less than two years before the opening ceremony and more than four years after Saemangeum was picked to host the World Scout Jamboree in 2017.

Another problem is North Jeolla only allowed companies that are based in the province to bid for Jamboree-related contracts.

As a result, a construction company based in Buan County ranked 964th nationally in terms of construction capacity was picked to build the basic infrastructure.

The company won the 4 billion won-project and broke ground in December 2021 but failed to finish construction, leading to drainage problems.

An electric company based in Jangsu County, North Jeolla, in August 2022 won the contract to install the electricity grid. However, not only was the construction to be completed on Aug. 5, after the opening of the Jamboree, but the company also struggled with the heavy rain that fell on the region a week earlier, delaying the entire process.

AND

The Global Youth Leader Center, the main center of the Jamboree, is one of the many buildings that remain uncompleted.

Bidding for the contract to build the center began last April, just 16 months before the opening ceremony.

Yet the construction schedule of the youth center was 660 days. Considering that construction started in June last year, the completion of the center would be in March 2024.

Here is a screenshot of the toilet/shower info... As each sub camp had around 2000 people, it can't have been 10 toilets per 2000 can it?! Are the "10 per sub camp" each a block of six toilets for example? If not then the ratio of toilets to participants is nearer 1 in 200!