Anyone got a Scout or Explorer going to WSJ in South Korea?

[lazylittlelucy]

Just thought I'd start a thread for parents if there are any on here.
My 17yo DD is going as an Explorer and is getting excited now.
Anyone else?

Arguably there should be an evacuation plan as part of standard planning for the site in case of emergency for an event this large. Hard to see that there was one.

I would suggest that, prior to this, if someone had suggested it, it would have been seen as something that was not ever likely to happen.
However my take from this is just how brilliantly - despite it never, ever being seen as something they would have to do - the evacuation has actually happened. Initially, the UK contingent - all found accommodation and transport and all moved from the site (Units and IST) - and then the evacuation of all the Units that were left - which has to be 35 - 40000 people ALL evacuated and re-homed in under two days. I am in complete awe of the people that have made this work. I think the Scouts (nationally) should be immensely proud of how they have responded when it became clear it was needed.

What happens to all the tents after a jamboree?

Well we have one from 2011 in our garage, which has been used many times since.
They aren't abandoned, like at Glastonbury or Reading or any other festival - a Scout leaves no trace.
Different Units, and Different Nations make their own decisions - most go home with the Units, but many are also donated to projects for the homeless (this is what happened to all our Unit's tents in America) or other International relief projects.

I understand that they are having to pull activities out of a hat but DS had already
spent 2 days in the city before heading to the jamboree site (because it wasn’t ready) and isn’t leaving until the 17th. He will have spent 2.5 weeks in a city which by all accounts isn’t the most exciting.

Also I don't know if it's been mentioned but they expect to spend £1million on this from reserves.

Yes, the Trustees agreed to release fund up front, to make sure all our participants were safeguarded. As one would hope they would. That is the most important priority. But this is exactly what 'reserves' are for..... 'emergencies'. This is (was) an emergency, so, like any organisation would, it was agreed to release the emergency fund, for the exact purpose of having an emergency fund.

Of course, in due course, there will be a lot of hard talking behind the scenes that none of us will be party to, with insurers, with World Scouting, with diplomats and international governments about who will be held responsible and how much of that money will be able to be reclaimed from anywhere. The priority over the last few days however, has been the people on the ground in Korea.

Interesting email. I have a child currently fundraising for Roverway 24 and very much looking forward to it. Also currently planning explorer belt with friends so lots of international travel coming up!

Surely there should have been some sort of mass evacuation plan for the site in place anyway in case of a typhoon, flood, fire etc. Does Glastonbury have one?

Surely the UK contingency would have had their own evacuation plan in place for the Brits as well in case of the above, a COVID style pandemic, or North Korea getting twitchy. (Or maybe them evacuating asap was part of that?)

My teen isn't at WSJ25 but will want to go as IST to Poland, so I hope they will be more open about this in the future. He's off to EIJ next year which will have 10,000 people so it will be interesting how they handle it.

They have more than £40 million in reserves. They can withstand the hit.

Scouts leave nothing but footprints, and take away memories. It sounds cheesy, but it's true. Our tents are reusable after a Jamboree, unlike the trashing that festival goers give them. They're either taken away by the user, or their reallocation is known before the event. In Chile, our tents stayed on site to host local Scouts. In the US, DD's unit gave theirs to the Canadian troop who hosted them afterwards.
In terms of measuring the impact of the WSJ, if we're trying to ascertain whether they're worth the emissions caused by getting there, we need to be very wary of comparisons that see WSJ/Moots etc as being less beneficial than sporting events, because they don't benefit the local economy. The biggest loss from what has happened here is the loss of the being together that makes a Jamboree. There is no other way that Emily from Esher or Tyler from Tynecastle will come to share a meal with a group of Colombians, sing with some Brazilians and meet a group from Kuwait for tea.

Scouts return from Jamborees knowing that young people share the same hopes, dreams, ambitions and fears wherever they are from. That they share a love of being outside, meeting other young people and doing sometimes daft activities. That there are ways of communicating all of this even when you don't share a language.

In a world where Trump, Bolsonaro and our own political leaders are comfortable spreading a message of fear about the world beyond our borders, I will defend the role of World Scouting events to the hilt. The young people who return are always moved by the sheer humanity of the world coming together. It's an incredibly emotional experience, and although its value can't be calculated in £s, that doesn't mean that we should no longer hold them. I still get very emotional when I reflect on the positive role of Scouting in a turbulent world.

@MrsWombat , Essex International Jamboree is a very different kettle of fish, not least because it's a quarter of the size. It is also a repeat event, on a site that has been used for the same event before, and organised by Essex Scouting and Girlguiding, with all their combined and historical knowledge of how to run a great event. There is no political or government involvement that I know of.
That being said, I'm sure they'll be keeping a very close eye on the lessons learnt through the pandemic and out in South Korea.

Excellent post @Lemonsole . I totally agree.

Talk to anyone who has returned from a WSJ and it isn't about the activities or the sights, it is all about dancing with the Brazilians or Hungarians, cooking with Mexican or Polish Scouts, singing with the Nigerians or Fijian Scouts.
In Sewden, they did a 'camp with the camp', and a patrol went off with 3 patrols from different countries (continents for some of them) and spent 24 hours camping offsite with Swedish Scouts.. Those 24 hours were one of the highlights for many - the dawning that Scouts all over the World were all just Scouts with the same ways of having fun and communicating and laughing together and learning from one another. If more of our populations had the opportunity to mix with other nations like this, the World would be a better place.

Scouts return from Jamborees knowing that young people share the same hopes, dreams, ambitions and fears wherever they are from

I'd hope that my kids were bright enough to know this even it they never attended a Jamboree. I remember my school having numerous books about the real lives of children around the world back in the '90s. I don't think your average child needs to attend Jamboree in order to realise that. And considering the relatively small numbers who go, we're screwed if we're relying on their attendance. Life and their parents, not to mention the internet and the numerous documentaries and other resources available , should teach them that.

I'm sure it's beneficial for many but not nearly as beneficial as encouraging environmental awareness and saving what we can of the planet.

And yes it is a lesser event when the local economy doesn't benefit nearly so much. It isn't just the Scouts who matter. Major events impact on locals, often negatively in many respects. Of course they should benefit financially from it if at all possible. It doesn't offset the environmental issues, and I'm not a football fan at all. but it does at least have benefits that extend beyond the attendees.

If we are to measure in those terms, the local area certainly anticipated benefitting economically: "The province predicts that preparations and the hosting of the event would energize the local economy, estimating approximately 1,000 new jobs and production inducements worth 80 billion won."

[[https://www.investkorea.org/jnbk-en/bbs/i-1334/detail.do?ntt_sn=471436

Yet without any sense of irony you make the extreme western capitalist assertion that financial value is the only thing of worth in this world.

That's one viewpoint. Many humans in this world view things differently.

To stay on reclaimed wetland that is now barren and has led to the deaths of thousands/millions of migrating birds.

I don't subscribe to the idea that the young shouldn't fly but I do think that whoever agreed to the location should be looked into.

Er no I did not say that money is the only thing that matters. I said that I think that locals and the local economy deserve to benefit from large events like this and that it isn't nearly as beneficial in that respect as the World Cup.

As for the figures those are only estimated figures from 2017, long before the event. It'll be interesting to see what the true numbers are, especially considering the disaster that it turned into.

Again though it doesn't say much for Scouting if Scouts have to attend the Jamboree in order to realise that other people have similar lives and dreams to their own. How on earth do the majority who don't attend WSJ learn those lessons if it's oh so vital?

It's a bit disingenuous to interpret "Scouts return from Jamborees as better world citizens" as "Jamborees are the only way to become world citizens". A post can't cover every nuance.
I still believe that international gatherings, whether the Essex Jamboree, Haarlem Jamborette, Moots, or world Jamborees, add value to our complex world - value that can't be computed in £s. And if your objection to Scouting events is on environmental grounds, when (travel apart) they tend to have the smallest footprint, we can't make exceptions for global events that bring economic growth since this, by definition, is a measure of further environmental damage.

The South Koreans did it because they thought it was valuable in terms of soft power and influence.

That's kinda backfired with the disaster it's become for them exposing corruption at the heart of their government workings.

Again though it doesn't say much for Scouting if Scouts have to attend the Jamboree in order to realise that other people have similar lives and dreams to their own. How on earth do the majority who don't attend WSJ learn those lessons if it's oh so vital?
To be fair I'd say many people never learn that. Hence the attitude towards asylum seekers and migrants amongst a number of Brits. It's not a question of people being bright enough, as you said earlier, @NooNooTheNotSoGreat
Travel broadens the mind, and meeting people of other countries and cultures helps us understand that we are all the same, if your mind is own to that.

Ime reading books about a country gives you rather different insights into a culture than visiting. It's nice preparation but not the real thing. Esp as books are really the world view of one particular person and generally a certain type of person at that.

Apart from which, scouting is international. It seems reasonable that an international organisation holds occasional international events.

Are you ready for more on the continuing fiasco?

Well here goes...

The government asked private companies to step in and help accommodate Scouts due to the need to evacuate them. There seems to be some annoyance at this:
https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=356681

Amid the efforts of domestic firms to minimize damage to Korea's reputation by offering an additional labor force, plus other basic necessities, due to the poor management of the global event, workers have been objecting to being forced to do tasks that are not relevant to their roles and responsibilities.

"We received a call from the presidential office on
night to prepare suitable accommodation, tourism programs and plans to transport the Scouts to the K-pop concert and the airport," a GS E&C employee wrote on Blind, an anonymous chat forum app for verified employees. "After the abrupt request, my colleagues had to prepare tourism programs and put up tents for the Scouts."

And

The government asked most major conglomerates to provide their training centers as shelters for the Scouts. As a result, Samsung, SK, Hyundai Motor, LG, POSCO, Lotte, Korean Air, Kolon and major commercial banks vacated their facilities.

"Our company even canceled a training session," a Korean Air employee wrote on Blind.

AND

"Finishing the Jamboree without additional problems is a matter of our country's reputation, so please serve the Jamboree participants faithfully so that they do not feel any inconvenience," the minister told a Hyundai Motor employee.

AND

Ourhome, the company in charge of catering services as an official sponsor of the Jamboree, drew complaints from its employees after some of them were sent to Saemangeum, even though their job descriptions had no relevance to the Scout event.

When Samsung ordered 150 new employees to help volunteer workers clean up trash at the campsite, under the pretext of letting them learn about corporate social responsibilities, some internet users said that it was unreasonable to task private company workers with solving problems resulting from the government's mishandling of the event.

There is also speculation that domestic firms had no choice but to accept the government's request, so as to avoid tax probes or other possible disadvantages to their businesses.

AND

Namseoul University President Yoon Seung-yong also wrote on social media that the university in Cheonan, South Chungcheong Province, was abruptly asked to provide its dormitories for 800 participants from Sweden.

"Both central and municipal governments did not give us guidelines on how to give rooms to the participants, how to serve them meals and how to treat them during their stay," he said.

They also look like they are in complete disarray for the closing ceremony. To the point that the Polish Embassy is publicly asking embarrassing questions. Their President has just cancelled his trip to South Korea due to safety concerns about the weather:
https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=356710

Although the Korean government took control of the remainder of the quadrennial event, whose participants exited the campsite due to the rapidly-approaching Typhoon Khanun, government ministries and organizers are still undecided on how to deliver the Jamboree flag to the event's next host, Poland, at the closing ceremony on Friday.

The Polish embassy in Seoul said, Wednesday, that it has not been notified of any details of the closing ceremony of the Jamboree event, including who will receive the flag during the ceremony.

"As of now, the embassy received no information on the closing ceremony of the Jamboree, such as where and when it will be held and how to (receive) the Jamboree flag," an official at the embassy said. "We also did not receive any request for the participation of Polish figures at the ceremony. We think the closing ceremony is no longer a matter of our involvement."

Initially, Polish President Andrzej Duda was scheduled to visit Korea on Wednesday to attend the closing ceremony and receive the Jamboree flag as the leader of the next host nation. The next Jamboree will take place in Gdansk in 2027.

AND (and this is the part that sums up the whole event to me)

When The Korea Times asked about the flag handover event at the closing ceremony, an official at the prime minister's office in charge of the Jamboree said the matter should be referred to the organizing committee.

The secretary general of the Jamboree organizing committee, Choi Chang-haeng, refused to comment on the issue, and other senior officials of the organizing committee said they do not have knowledge of the ceremony, and added that the Ministry of Culture, Sports and Tourism should be contacted instead.

A spokesperson for the culture ministry said the flag ceremony is not its responsibility and pointed to the organizing committee as the source to contact.

The Ministry of Gender Equality, which was initially in charge of the event, also did not respond to The Korea Times' questions on the flag ceremony.

Regarding the same inquiry, the World Organization of the Scout Movement said, "We're unable to comment on any details regarding the closing ceremony for the moment."

AND

While it became uncertain whether the flag can be delivered to the next host at the ceremony, government staffers are also crying foul over the government's unorganized control of the event.
^^
According to the State Public Officials' Labor Union, a union of government officials, the interior and safety ministry asked each ministry on Monday to send at least 10 staffers to gather at the Government Complex in Sejong at 6:30 a.m., Tuesday, to support the Scout members travelling across the country.
^^
However, just hours before that gathering time, the safety ministry said not all of them are required to be there and ordered some of them to go back to their office as usual, despite some officials have to go back to their office in Seoul, which takes approximately 2 hours and 30 minutes by car.
^^
"The government is making orders through text messages and emails, without telling how long it will take and what work we should do while reiterating the situation is flexible," the union said in a statement.

"Though it is public officials' duty to serve for the country, but we are not a subject whose fundamental human dignity is disregarded, being mobilized without any agreement, direction, or knowledge of where to go and how long it will take

Ime reading books about a country gives you rather different insights into a culture than visiting. It's nice preparation but not the real thing

The point was that traveling is not the only way especially now in the internet age, and that you don't have to attend the Jamboree in order to realise that other people in other nations are more alike you than they are different. That even when I was a child that resources were available. Now we have so many more.

And yes traveling can have benefits in that regard but let's be honest. There are plenty of people who regularly go traveling and still have no more awareness, regard or respect for people from other nations. And there are people who rarely travel but are still quite capable of recognising their shared humanity.

Plus it's a minority of Scouts who attend. It seems unwise to rely on an event that the majority won't attend in order to try to get children to recognise that other people in other countries are really no different. It might be nice for them but it's far from essential. It rather reminds me of the "international volunteering" that many High School and uni students used to pay to do, like building a schooo, which may have been a great experience for them but considering their lack of skills and that it often took work away from local workers, was ultimately detrimental to the locals and their economy. Actually I think that's still around but it's less common.

I'm surprised that environmental awareness isn't more of a priority in Scouting. International or nor,I think it's hard to justify the impact on the planet. And ultimately preserving what we can of the planet will be infinitely more beneficial than attending WSJ.

This sounds bizzare (from the latest BBC news update):

"Logistical stuff-ups persist, Korean media report. For example, officials in one district prepared food and accommodation for 175 evacuated scouts of the Yemen contingent. But it turned out the scouts had not even attended the jamboree in the first place."

And that's not all for this morning.

The government seems to be on a mission to scare the shit out of parents from all over the world in their attempts to reassure. I have absolutely no idea what they are thinking with some of these quotes - but it's the ok, there's a manual for it!:
https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=356704

The government has enhanced safety management measures to protect tens of thousands of participants of the 25th World Scout Jamboree from the rapidly approaching Typhoon Khanun.

Interior and Safety Minister Lee Sang-min said Wednesday that the government, in cooperation with local governments, police and fire authorities, has strengthened patrols in areas near accommodation where the participants are currently staying, in preparation for possible floods and mudslides there.

"The government shares typhoon-related information with the World Organization of the Scout Movement in real time in preparation for the possibility that any accommodations could be directly affected by the typhoon," Minister Lee said during a media briefing.

"The government will also distribute relevant information and on-site action manuals to the participants."

AND

The minister said the team is keenly cooperating with eight cities and provinces accommodating the Jamboree participants and will check the safety and hygiene of accommodations as well as medical services in each region.

Prime Minister Han Duck-soo also vowed to provide "impeccable" support for the Jamboree participants until the departure of all Scouts from the country.

"Local governments should respond immediately to any demands and complaints of the Scouts and take preemptive steps to cope with any risk factors," Han said during a government emergency response meeting on the Jamboree. "The participants' safety and health should always be the top priority."

More seriously the evacuation didn't go without a hitch:
But the bad news has continued. A bus carrying Jamboree participants from Switzerland collided with a local bus in Suncheon, South Jeolla Province, at about 12:46 p.m. on Wednesday.

Nine suffered slight injuries, according to the organizing committee.

The injured include three Swiss nationals and one Korean driver in addition to five other Korean nationals aboard the local bus. They were sent to nearby hospitals for treatment.

BUT DON'T WORRY! The K-POP concert is happening still and will Save The Day for the South Korean government (for the moment at least...unless the typhoon has other ideas):
https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/2023/08/09/entertainment/kpop/Jamboree-concert-Kpop/20230809171115032.html

K-pop bands NewJeans, NCT Dream, ITZY, Mamamoo, The Boyz, Shownu & Hyungwon, fromis_9, ZeroBaseOne, P1Harmony, KARD, The New Six, ATBO, xikers, Holybang and Libelante and singers Kang Daniel, Kwon Eun-bi and Jo Yuri will perform at the "K-pop Super Live" concert, according to the Ministry of Culture, Sports and Tourism.

It will be hosted by actor Gong Myoung alongside singers Yuna of ITZY and Hyein of NewJeans.

The ministry finalized the lineup of artists on Wednesday, a day after it announced the new time and place for the concert at Seoul World Cup Stadium in western Seoul, at 7 p.m.

The closing ceremony of the Jamboree will take place from 5:30 p.m. to 6 p.m., before the start of the concert. The concert will last for two hours.

“Top K-pop artists will flaunt the essence and charm of Korean culture to the 40,000 young scout members from 150 countries around the world who will become one through the concert,” Minister of Culture, Sports and Tourism Park Bo-gyoon said in a press release.

About that typhoon:
The typhoon is currently expected to bring heavy rainfall and strong winds starting Wednesday and bring the entire country under its influence over Thursday and Friday, according to the Korea Meteorological Administration (KMA).

Should the typhoon change its trajectory or gain more force than expected, the concert may be canceled, according to the Minister of Interior and Safety.

“The concert will take place after we expect the typhoon to exit [the Korean peninsula],” Lee Sang-min, minister of the Interior and Safety, told the Korean press in a briefing on Wednesday. “If our estimates miss and we remain in the midst of the typhoon, then everyone’s safety will come first and we may have to resort to canceling the concert.”

“But as of now, there is no possibility of a cancelation,” he added. “Sound equipment has to be installed before the concert, so we will take extra precautionary measures so they do not fall due to the strong winds.”

The concert has been met with criticism from both football and K-pop fans since the initial change in venue. A football game set to take place at the Jeonju stadium had to be canceled due to the concert while KBS' music program “Music Bank” also had to be called off.

K-pop fans have been criticizing the government for attempting to make up for the lackluster event with the artists. A group of BTS fans released an online statement on Tuesday calling the concert “a pit hole of Korea’s shattered reputation” after lawmaker Sung Il-jong on Tuesday requested the Defense Ministry send members currently serving in the military to the concert.

“The Jamboree organizers have not proved how much they have prepared for this concert,” the statement read. “The time to prepare for potential dangers or check the stage conditions is substantially lacking. We as fans express our sincerest concerns and disappointment.”

That typhoon looks 'interesting'... Let's hope the South Korean government is experienced in how to handle such matters and is well prepared. Oh....
https://m.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20230809000616

If Khanun moves as expected, it will be the first typhoon to run across the Korean Peninsula from south to north since 1951 -- the year that KMA started to collect climate data.
^^
The typhoon is expected to come with heavy downpour, spraying more than 600 millimeters of rain in the eastern part of Gangwon Province, more than 300 millimeters in both North and South Gyeongsang provinces and 100 to 200 millimeters in Greater Seoul, North and South Jeolla provinces and North and South Chungcheong provinces.

Let's hope they really do have the 'How To Survive A Typhoon' manual at the ready so everyone knows how to handle the crisis. (Facepalm)

And finally (for now) here's a link to another news article (press release) on all the cultural events the Scouts will now be doing in Seoul which I can't be bothered to copy and paste here:
https://m.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20230809000567