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Ukraine Invasion: Part 43

992 replies

MagicFox · 08/07/2023 11:10

With thanks as usual to everyone!

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MissConductUS · 16/07/2023 00:18

The level of American political support for Ukraine is an ongoing concern. It had an important test this week as Congress started the passage of the annual NDA (Nation Defense Authorization) bill. This is the master legislation for everything defense related. The good news is that political support for Ukraine is quite solid, as this Op/Ed piece in the WSJ lays out. By the way, Donald Trump hates the WSJ. The feeling is mutual. I love seeing editorials like this because they are quite influential is shaping public opinion, especially among moderates from both parties.

The House Refuses to Abandon Ukraine - The GOP’s isolationist wing loses big in a pair of defense votes.

By
The Editorial Board
July 14, 2023 6:44 pm ET

The House passed the annual defense policy bill on Friday, and what a shock it must have been for the press corps. The Beltway media spent the week informing readers that conservative social policies doomed the bill and that GOP isolationists might block support for Ukraine.

They need better sources. Neither happened, and Republican amendments to abandon Ukraine in particular were routed on the floor. The GOP’s abandon-Ukraine caucus is loud and damaging to the party, but most Americans appreciate the stakes for the U.S. in backing Kyiv.

The House bill authorizes $300 million in security assistance for Ukraine, which Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene aimed to strip in an amendment. Her measure failed 341-89. Rep. Matt Gaetz tried to block all further military aid for Kyiv, which lost 358-70. A majority of Republicans joined Democrats in opposing both.

The measures would have damaged U.S. interests and been a disaster for the public’s view of Republicans as the party of a strong national defense. Since when are Republicans against helping people who want to fight for their freedom against Russia or China?

Not one to miss an opportunity to adopt a losing cause, Donald Trump belly-flopped in on Friday with a statement that when he wins the Presidency he’ll end the war in “24 hours,” details never to follow. “This conflict must end. Not one American mother or father wants to send their child to die in Eastern Europe. We must have PEACE.”

Not a single American solider has died in Ukraine, which is part of the point in supporting that country with weapons. Check Russia there so that U.S. troops don’t have to fight Vladimir Putin’s tanks in Vilnius or Warsaw.

Mr. Trump lamented dwindling U.S. weapons stocks, a real problem that he could have done more to prevent while President. But the U.S. is replacing donated equipment with better kit, and new contracts are a start on reviving the defense industrial base.

The Trump-Gaetz view commands even less support in the Senate. That’s all the more encouraging given that Mr. Biden has barely made the case for supporting Ukraine to the public. But Congressional patience isn’t infinite, and Mr. Biden ought to use Congress’s show of political support to accelerate the delivery of weapons, especially the long-range missiles the President has been hesitating over.

The GOP isolationists rail against “forever wars,” but the real recipe for extended war is giving Ukraine only enough weapons to fight to a draw rather than to drive Russia out. That’s been President Biden’s strategy. Former Vice President Mike Pence had it right in our pages this week: The fastest route to peace is a Ukrainian victory.

Opinion | The House Refuses to Abandon Ukraine

The GOP’s isolationist wing loses big in a pair of defense votes.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/house-gop-defense-bill-ukraine-support-matt-gaetz-marjorie-taylor-greene-donald-trump-b79c5da1?mod=opinion_lead_pos2

Chatillon · 16/07/2023 00:21

Howpo · 15/07/2023 22:18

Of course he has... not.... and no more than a GP or a nurse for considerably less reward.

I don't like the guy, he has overseen some drastic cuts in UK defence without a murmur, so he is hardly going to say anything different, now he is likely to retire to the private sector and some huge pay offs.

You are assuming he was only talking about his political career. I think that assumption is wrong.

L1ttledrummergirl · 16/07/2023 09:34

@Howpo your assessment of British politics is way off base. When the people who have always voted Conservative, who live in a Conservative area are saying I'm voting libdem next time, and the people who have been the most ardent and vocal are chasing Labour candidates down the road to talk to them and ask questions, you know the tories are done.
Their Mickley mouse channel GB news is laughed at, and the tory MPs are seen at best as lazy, at worst, theiving, self serving, tone deaf grifters. They are done.

If Trump is elected, America will be seen as a joke here.

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 16/07/2023 13:33

An upbeat article from Daniel Hannan in The Telegraph, can't see any Russian government agreeing to denuclearisation but one can dream!

Take away Russia’s nuclear weapons – for Putin is finished and his country may soon collapse

The Soviet Union’s successors were never made to accept the fact of defeat. Whoever comes after Putin must be forced to demilitarise

Vladimir Putin is finished. You can see the bleak despair behind his high, sullen, surgically-enhanced cheekbones. He looks, to use an old word, fey. The shadow is upon him.
He might struggle on for a few more weeks, even months. But the aura of invincibilityy on which his regime rested has gone. Potential successors are manoeuvring openly. Big companies are building private armies. Whole regions of Russia are laying the ground for independence referendums. Army officers speak openly against the leadershipp.
Events are taking on a momentum of their own. Once the oligarchs and generals begin to plan for a succession, to hold tentative conversations, to identify their preferred candidates, there is no going back. Putin, who understands the psychology of fear better than most men, feels his authority flooding awayy_.
The only thing that could have saved him, a military victory in Ukraine, is out of reachh_. I don’t mean only that his original objective of regime change in Kyiv is a distant memory. Even a secondary, face-saving goal, such as establishing full control over the four oblasts which he declared to be Russian following Stalin-style votes in September, is now unachievable.

Indeed, the terms that were being discussed in Minsk, and which Volodymyr Zelensky seemed to be contemplating as late as April of last year, are definitively off the table. There is no way that Kyiv could settle for the de facto independence of its eastern provinces under notional Ukrainian suzerainty. The best Russia can hope for is an eventual referendum under international supervision in a demilitarised Crimea following Kyiv’s reabsorption of the Donbas – a crushing defeat by any standard.
Could Putin be holding out in the hope of a Republican victory at next year’s US elections? Donald Trump has a hideous soft spot for the Russian autocratt_, going so far during his presidency as to say that he believed Putin over his own security agencies. Other Republicans, while not pro-Putin, have none the less declared that they won’t fund another “forever war”.
But the whole question is irrelevant, for it presupposes that Russia’s demoralised troops could hold out for another 18 months.
In practice, it will be over before then. Sure, Ukraine has not repeated the lightning gains it made last August, but that was never going to happen. Russia has entrenched along a line which includes a belt of landmines three miles deep. To dislodge an army from such a position takes time.
The initial step, as during the first Gulf war, is to degrade the enemy’s infrastructure through bombardment – a process that cannot be hurried. In the meantime, Ukraine is probing for weak points, keeping the Russians guessing as to where the main assault will come, all the time turning up the pressure.
There is, in theory, a short-cut. Prigozhin’s march on Moscoww showed the world how poorly defended Russia is. Ukraine could launch a massive left hook through Kursk, aiming to cut off the enemy’s forces. But most of Ukraine’s Western weaponss were supplied on the basis that they would not be used on foreign soil. To quote Admiral Roland from Where Eagles Dare, “There are certain, ah, niceties to be observed in our relationship with our allies.”
So Ukraine is left with the option of grinding Russia down – not by hurling conscripts at guns, but by the intelligent use of advanced missiles, drones, satellites and, if they arrive, F16s. The only question is whether there will be regime change in Moscow first, or whether there will be a 1917-style Russian collapse along a section of the front.
In the latter scenario – that is, in the event that Russia’s boyars have not already deposed Putin – Ukraine will break through, cut off Crimea and kettle the large Russian garrison there. With only the fragile link of the Kerch bridge, Russia will not be able to relieve the peninsula. Ukraine will choke off supplies of food, water and electricity, invite the Red Cross to evacuate civilians, and wait for the Russian surrenderr_.
If we can foresee these things, so can Russia’s elites. The oligarchs and siloviki know that Putin is leading them to ruin – national ruin and personal ruin. They know that, with every day that passes, the price that will be exacted from them rises. They will move sooner rather than later.
This is the context of Prigozhin’s mutiny. It is in the nature of these things that we have few solid facts. It is far from clear that Prigozhin or his men have relocated to Belaruss_. We cannot say why they halted when Moscow lay naked before them. We don’t know what deals were done.
But we do know that Wagner launched an armed rebellion, and we can reasonably assume that Prigozhin was at least acting in concert with forces which wanted change.
Last week, Igor Girkinn_, a former officer and FSB agent who played a key role in the annexation of Crimea and the Donbas, was reported to have suggested that the people behind the Wagner rising were a faction of oligarchs headed by Yuri Kovalchuk, reputedly Putin’s personal banker, and the energy magnates Arkady and Boris Rotenberg.
He seems to believe that these men aimed to weaken Putin rather than to bring him down, because they did not want him to be succeeded by a hard man such as Nikolai Patrushev. The theory goes that they used the insurrection to wring concessions from the weakened dictator in preparation for a later handover to a junta that would seek peace and protect their business interests.
We have no way of knowing whether this is right. But we do know that all sides are limbering up for a bloody interregnum, a Time of Troubles like that which preceded the accession of the Romanovs in 1613. The balance of opposed factions has broken down, the Tsar has lost all authority, and Russia faces the prospect of warlordismm_.
To some Western analysts, these things are terrifying. They conjure the prospect of ongoing civil war, or of local magnates acquiring nuclear stockpiles. But it is no more in the West’s power to hold the Russian Federation together than it was to hold the USSR together – something American and European diplomats foolishly tried to do in 1990.
What is in the West’s power, as some Russian dissidents are now arguing, is to push for denuclearisationn_, both of any breakaway republics as the price for recognition, and of the rump state around Moscow and St Petersburg.
Such a state – let’s call it Muscovy – would have few options. Its assets would have been seized for reparations, its citizens barred from overseas travel, its natural resources lost with the secession of various republics. Its choice would be to become an ill-tempered Eurasian khanate, a kind of nuclear Kazakhstan, or to embrace the free world, as West Germany did under Konrad Adenauer.
As with West Germany, the prize would be economic recovery as part of the Euro-Atlantic world. And, as with West Germany, the price would be demilitarisation – including, in this case, the destruction of nuclear weapons, possibly as part of a reduction of global stocks.
After 1990, Russia was never made to accept either the fact of its defeat or the nature of the crimes it had committed over the previous seven decades. This time, things will be different.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 16/07/2023 14:04

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-july-15-2023

Key Takeaways:

  • Russian sources reported on July 15 that the Russian military command dismissed 106th Guards Airborne (VDV) Division Commander Major General Vladimir Seliverstov.
  • Seliverstov’s dismissal may be a part of an ongoing purge of insubordinate commanders by the Russian military command and may suggest that the corrosion of the Russian chain of command in Ukraine is accelerating.
  • The Russian military leadership is likely attempting to dissuade commanders from emulating recent cases of insubordination by punishing those involved in leaking Popov’s message of complaints.
  • Growing insubordination will likely exacerbate existing factional divides within the Russian military and the wider Russian security sphere.
  • Factions within the Russian security forces and the Kremlin appear to be fighting for control over the Russian insider information space.
  • Polyakov’s arrest suggests that different factions within the Kremlin and Russian security entities are exploiting the Russian information space and secret information to advance their political and financial objectives against the backdrop of Russia’s war in Ukraine.
  • Ukrainian forces conducted counteroffensive operations on at least three sectors of the front on June 15 and reportedly made limited gains.
  • The New York Times (NYT) reported that the Ukrainian military has adjusted its strategy to minimize Ukrainian casualties while continuing to attrit Russian forces, supporting ISW’s previous assessments.
  • The Belarusian Ministry of Defense (MoD) announced that it developed a plan for Wagner Group personnel to train Belarusian forces as Ukrainian, Russian, and Belarusian sources continue to report that Wagner forces are moving to Belarus.
  • Russian authorities likely continue to forcibly integrate Ukrainian Orthodox Church (UOC) dioceses into the Kremlin-controlled Russian Orthodox Church (ROC) as part of a wider religious persecution campaign in occupied Ukraine.
  • Russian forces conducted offensive operations and made limited territorial gains near Svatove.
  • Ukrainian forces reportedly made limited territorial gains on Bakhmut’s southern flank, while Russian sources claimed that Russian forces made limited advances on Bakhmut’s northern and southern flanks.
  • Russian forces continued limited offensive operations on the Donetsk City-Avdiivka line but did not make any territorial gains.
  • Ukrainian forces continued counteroffensive operations along the western Donetsk-eastern Zaporizhia Oblast border and reportedly made limited gains.
  • Ukrainian forces continued counteroffensive operations and reportedly made limited advances in western Zaporizhia Oblast.
  • The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) announced the completion of Russia’s spring 2023 conscription cycle on July 15.
  • The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported that the Kremlin launched a program to recruit young adults in Russia for service in occupation administrations in Ukraine.

Note the last sentence of the UK's int update.

Ukraine Invasion: Part 43
ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 16/07/2023 14:18

Kyiv Independent Telegram

Ukraine has received less than 15% of its requested demining and engineering equipment from the West, the Washington Post reports, citing a senior Ukrainian official who spoke on conditions of anonymity. https://kyivindependent.com/washington-post-7/
Areas between five and 16 kilometers deep have been densely mined with antitank and antipersonnel mines and trip wires in front of Russian forces’ main strongholds.

A Russian court arrested seven members of the Russian Nazi extremist group NS/WP for allegedly plotting an assassination attempt on Russian propagandist Margarita Simonyan and TV presenter Ksenia Sobchak, Russian state news agency TASS reported on July 15. https://kyivindependent.com/moscow-court-arrests-suspects-plotted-to-kill-kremlin-propagandist-and-tv-presenter/

⚡️ISW: Russian sources claim another general dismissed https://kyivindependent.com/isw-38/

⚡️ Media: Serbia to send https://kyivindependent.com/media-serbia-to-send-humanitarian-aid-to-help-ukraine-overcome-kakhovka-dam-destruction/ humanitarian aid after Kakhovka dam disaster.

⚡️UK Defense Ministry https://kyivindependent.com/uk-ministry-of-defense-britain-trained-18-000-ukrainian-recruits/ 18,000 Ukrainian infantry soldiers trained in country so far.

⚡️Explosions reported in Sevastopol https://kyivindependent.com/drone-attack-causes-explosions-in-sevastopol-claims-russian-proxy/Russian proxies claim drone attack.

⚡️ Ukraine says it destroyed https://kyivindependent.com/ukrainian-military-says/Russian S-400 missile system used in deadly strike on Kramatorsk.

⚡️Ben Wallace to resign https://kyivindependent.com/ben-wallace-to-resign-as-uk-defence-minister-in-coming-months/ as UK Defense Minister, not contest MP seat.

Redoubling support for Ukraine is the best way to improve the international economy, U.S. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen said on the sidelines of a G20 summit of finance ministers in India, according to AFP. https://kyivindependent.com/yellen-redoubling-ukraine-support-single-best-thing-for-global-economy/

⚡️Deputy defense minister: Ukrainians mastered https://kyivindependent.com/deputy-defense-minister-ukrainians-unprecedentedly-quickly-mastered-specifics-of-disclosing-war-related-information/aspects of information war ‘unprecedentedly quickly.’

Bulgarian President Rumen Radev blasted Ukraine while speaking to journalists on July 14, claiming that Kyiv "insists on waging war," while "Europe pays for everything." https://kyivindependent.com/bulgarian-president-blames-ukraine-for-war-prime-minister-hits-back/

Two boys, ages 8 and 10, were injured by an explosive in Tryfonivka on July 16, according to the Kherson Oblast Military Administration. The children reportedly found an unknown object in the street, which detonated as they were playing. https://kyivindependent.com/two-boys/

Medium personnel losses, still a lot of arty systems gone.
Ragnar Gudmundsson
[email protected]
@ragnarbjartur
HIGHLIGHTS FOR JUL 16:
■ Combat engagements &strikes up between days
■ Troop & equipment losses below 7-day average
■ Double-digit artillery & drone losses

Ukraine Invasion: Part 43
Howpo · 16/07/2023 14:21

@ReleaseTheDucksOfWar @Hillsmakeyoustrong

Proof is in the pudding, he cried crocodile tears over Afghans left there & has done jack shit to get afghans who have made it to the Pakistan, one senior commander withdrew his application because it was going no where and he is now in the USA.... all whilst backing the Govts policy 100%, has he ever criticised govt spending cuts on defence? nope.

and i don't believe he has 3 phones etc no other defence secretary has ever come out with this, so why would he? and more importantly, why would he tell the world? and modern comms can route multiple numbers to a single phone, its BS.

Whats surprising is some people on thread buy into this politician, then again people buy into Bojo and Farage too.

Anyway, dislike of particular politicians is probably beyond the scope of this thread, he is going and good riddance.

Yes having got close family memebers in the NHS, they work a fuck sight harder and aren't the size of Wallace, who looks like he spends rather too much time at the bar.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 16/07/2023 14:30

^and i don't believe he has 3 phones etc no other defence secretary has ever come out with this, so why would he?

it's called security, pet.

Do you really think that you know everything that goes on at high level? All the discussions, all the agreements and disagreements? Do you really think you know everything the previous Defense Secretaries did?

If you won a million pounds you'd find a way to turn it into a disaster wouldn't you.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 16/07/2023 14:34

UNITED24 Telegram

Before the counteroffensive, Ukraine received less than 15% of the mining and engineering equipment requested in the West, — WP.
▪️About 5-16 km of land in front of the positions of the Russian Federation is densely mined. This deters the offensive of the Armed Forces.
▪️Vulnerability of armored personnel carriers and tanks was revealed in minefields. This is also about Bradley and Leopard, who were considered vital to the return of the occupied lands.
▪️After a mine explosion, most people in such cars survive with minor injuries. But this technique cannot penetrate the defense of the Russian Federation.

In the Kherson region, partisans blew up two trucks with the occupiers

Putin lied about cluster munitions and the counteroffensive of the Armed Forces
Putin lied that the Russian Federation did not use cluster munitions — military and Western analysts have repeatedly proven that it shelled Ukrainian territories with such munitions, particularly on cities and civilians.
Putin also lies about the counteroffensive, allegedly the Armed Forces "couldn't break through the defense of the Russians for the entire time of the offensives."

Presidents of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, and South Korea, Yoon Suk Yeol, discussed the return of adults and children abducted by Russia.

🇬🇧 Britain became the first European country to join the Indo-Pacific Trade Block (CPTPP)

Ukraine plans to sign a visa-free customs regime with the United Arab Emirates, and also plans to join the CPTPP, which will open the possibility of free trade with Australia and Japan.

Ukrainian divers recovered an enemy tank from Desna, after repair, it will serve the Armed Forces of Ukraine

This is how Mariinka looks now

Ukraine Invasion: Part 43
Ukraine Invasion: Part 43
ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 16/07/2023 14:41

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 16/07/2023 14:45

Live: Ukraine Telegram

💥Ukrainian Armed Forces confirm destruction of missile weapons depot in Yuvileine, Luhansk region

President of Hungary to visit Zakarpattia and Kyiv
Katalin Novak has accepted the invitation of the Ukrainian government and will come to the Crimean Platform on August 23 in Kyiv, but before that she will visit Zakarpattia. This also means that the Hungarian head of state may meet in person with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky again.

Russian Telegram channels post this flyer that was put into mailboxes of the residents of temporarily occupied Enerhodar (the city closest to Zaporizhzhia NPP).
They are invited to move to the Russian Far East.
Translation of the flyer's content is below:
"Ministry of the Russian Federation for the Development of the
Far East and Arctic Development Corporation

Dear Residents of Energodar!
The Far East of Russia is waiting for you!
Take part in the state program of development of the Far East
You can expect:

  1. The opportunity to choose any of one of the regions of the Far East
  2. Receipt of a lift in the amount of 240,000 rubles additional 120,000 for each family member.
  3. Guaranteed employment. Average salary of 55,000 rubles.
  4. Preferential conditions for admission to universities for families of program participants.
Ukraine Invasion: Part 43
Igotjelly · 16/07/2023 15:08

Having previously worked in ministerial Private Office within Govt I can well believe he does have 3 phones, it certainly wouldn’t be unusual.

Sorry total aside.

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 16/07/2023 15:21

Another Telegraph article, this one from Ivana Stradner:

Putin's soft underbelly is ripe for revolt

It's wrong to assume Russia's 'allies' will forever be loyal to Moscow - often the reverse is true. The West can exploit this

After the so-called “march of justice” against the Russian military, all eyes have been on Belarus. Often described as Europe’s last dictator, its leader Alexander Lukashenko serves as Vladimir Putin’s most loyal instrument on Russia’s Western flank. His decision to utilise Belarus as a means to rein in Prigozhinn_ and his Wagner mercenaries underscores his efforts to fortify his standing in Moscow.
Exiled Belarusian opposition leader Svetlana Tikhanovskaya warned that Prighozin “can bring this war to Belarus.” She is not alone. Putin’s decision to move Wagner mercenaries to Belarus, if it happens, also does not bode well for many Eastern European Nato member states. For instance, Poland is now securing its border. Parliament speakers of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania issued a joint statement warning that “the emergence of the Wagner mercenary group in Belarus could make the security situation on the eastern borders of Nato and the EU even more precarious.”
Nato’s statement that it is ready to defend itself is a step in the right direction, but this is not enough. The West should remind Moscow’s friends in Europe of Russia’s international isolation, military failures in Ukrainee_, and much-diminished power as an ally. If they do so, there is ample opportunity to erode the Kremlin’s waning influence in its former satellite states.
Whilst Belarus seems to be only going one way, towards Russia, that ignores how unpopular Lukashenko is among his own people. Seen in this way, Belarus is not a pillar in Putin’s new empire, but an unreliable partner destined to become more unstable because of the Wagner group being exiled there. Likewise, Lukashenko’s paranoia is in full force now. Anticipating that the Belarusian opposition might exploit the situation in Russia to initiate an armed uprising in Ukraine, he issued an order to bring the Belarusian Armed Forces to full combat readiness.
Belarus’ opposition is not alone. This war has disturbed Putin’s allies – his soft underbelly, as it were – in the Balkans, Caucasus and Central Asia, with many refusing to support his diplomatic efforts. For instance, Moscow’s traditional allies such as Kazakhstan and Serbia abstained from UN resolutions that condemned the Russian invasion of Ukraine. The allies also provided refuge for Russian civilians avoiding conscription in Russiaa_, and refused to recognize Russian-occupied territory in Ukraine.
As Wagner forces were marching toward Moscow, Putin called Kazakh President who described events as Russia’s “internal affairs.” Before, Uzbekistan’s foreign minister, Abdulaziz Kamilov, stressed the “independence, sovereignty, and territorial integrity of Ukraine.” Serbia has allowed ammunition shipments to Ukraine and the Serbian President Aleksandar Vucic, whose country is one of Russia’s closest allies in Europe, stated, “We’ve said from the beginning that we cannot support Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. … For us, Crimea and Donbas are Ukraine – and they will remain so.” In Moldova, President Maia Sandu went as far as to accuse Russia of plotting to violently overthrow her government and is moving her country rapidly towards the EU. Armenia’s prime minister, Nikol Pashinyan, announced that his country, a longstanding Russian ally, could withdraw from the Collective Security Treaty Organizationn_.
As Putin’s poor military performance in Ukraine continues, Moscow is seeking to open new fronts in places like Moldova, the Balkans or Georgia and draw away Western focus and resources from Ukraine. Putin’s tanks might not be powerful but he does not need to rely on hard power to coerce these nations, as he can leverage instruments of hybrid warfare to instigate conflicts via proxies in the region. But this should be seen as an indicator not of Putin’s strength, but of his weakness. As he begins to lose his grip on these countries, he is desperately trying to shore them up before it is too late.
While Western countries are apprehensive about Putin’s potential broadening of this conflict, they should understand that showing weakness only emboldens Putin. For many years Putin has been trying to show that the West is nothing more than a paper tiger but the mutiny exposed weakness in Putin’s power.
Now is not the time to back down on supporting these countries. Now is the time to redouble our efforts to help Ukraine win the war. Now is the time to send ATACMS. Now is the time to send F-16s. Above all, now is the time to remind Putin’s traditional allies in Europe that they should not tie their fortunes to a fading dictator.

Chatillon · 16/07/2023 17:10

Presidents of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, and South Korea, Yoon Suk Yeol, discussed the return of adults and children abducted by Russia.

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2023/07/10/overall-opinion-of-russia

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2023/07/10/overall-opinion-of-russia/gap_2023-07-10_russia-nato_2-02/

And -

Bulgarian President Rumen Radev blasted Ukraine while speaking to journalists on July 14, claiming that Kyiv "insists on waging war," while "Europe pays for everything."

I am heartened by the Brazilian attitude. I imagined Bolsonaro would have flexed Trump and Orban-like influence in the country. India’s position is looking pretty rubbish though. More Ric than Bric I hope.

2. Overall opinion of Russia

Across 24 countries surveyed, views of Russia are overwhelmingly negative, with a median of 82% saying they have an unfavorable opinion of the country,

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2023/07/10/overall-opinion-of-russia

Chatillon · 16/07/2023 17:12

Natsku · 15/07/2023 11:05

Ooo bbc sounds works over here so I can listen

Sadly I missed the Proms in the end. I trust there was no Wagner.....

I will get my coat.

PerkingFaintly · 16/07/2023 17:43

Chatillon · 16/07/2023 17:12

Sadly I missed the Proms in the end. I trust there was no Wagner.....

I will get my coat.

Shock Leave the building this instant!

GrinGrinGrin

PerkingFaintly · 16/07/2023 17:45

In my rush to let you know the Prom had started, I missed that the conductor last night was also Ukrainian.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalia_Stasevska

Dalia Stasevska - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalia_Stasevska

MMBaranova · 16/07/2023 17:56

The oddest thing to scroll by has been the alleged plot to assassinate Margarita Simonyan and Ksenia Sobchak. There have been detentions in Russia of those tasked with the assassination, or not. Ukrainian sources just shrug.

Russian State TV Figures Too 'Meaningless' To Assassinate: Zelensky Adviser (newsweek.com)

Simonyan is rather vile and is RT editor-in-chief among other thing. Sobchak broadcasts but I'd put her off in a side camp. Putin is her godfather and he was her dad's bag carrier back when he was a lackey.

Margarita Simonyan and Ksenia Sobchak

Russian state TV figures too "meaningless" to assassinate: Zelensky adviser

"They have no impact on anything," Ukrainian presidential adviser, Mykhailo Podolyak, said in remarks reported by Ukrainian media.

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-state-tv-assassination-margarita-simonyan-ksenia-sobchak-fsb-ukraine-1813223

MMBaranova · 16/07/2023 18:02

It is even generating satirical verse.

First and last verses, roughly:

On the table is their half-drunk whiskey,
next to vodka, beer and cognac.
Boldly living without a residence permit,
they plotted to destroy Sobchak.

And everywhere they danced and sang
What a joy it is!
And would also walk in the carnival
On the day that Wagner took Moscow...

Ukraine Invasion: Part 43
Natsku · 16/07/2023 18:19

Chatillon · 16/07/2023 17:12

Sadly I missed the Proms in the end. I trust there was no Wagner.....

I will get my coat.

Har har Grin

I really enjoyed listening to it, the Ukrainian Finnish composer is very good, and Finlandia is a banging tune.

Surplus2requirements · 16/07/2023 20:29

Just caught up after having to deal with a Russian propaganda spouter on another site with thanks to the knowledge learned on this many threads.

Interesting times for the Russian military and security brass it seems.

I imagine it like the Mexican stand off in The Good, The Bad and The Ugly...who will blink first?

Howpo · 16/07/2023 20:57

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 16/07/2023 14:30

^and i don't believe he has 3 phones etc no other defence secretary has ever come out with this, so why would he?

it's called security, pet.

Do you really think that you know everything that goes on at high level? All the discussions, all the agreements and disagreements? Do you really think you know everything the previous Defense Secretaries did?

If you won a million pounds you'd find a way to turn it into a disaster wouldn't you.

..but you do? ok Pet.

What matters, isn't you or i and stupid arguments, for Ukraine it's is the next 15 months before the US elections, thats the important issue, you'd do well to remember this.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 16/07/2023 21:07

No, and Im not arrogant enough to assume that I do.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 16/07/2023 21:24

To be precise:

You claim to know how hard Ben Wallace works compared to NHS people.

How?

You claim that he has announced cuts, without apparently considering that he might very well have fought for those cuts not to be made and lost. If you work for high govt you have to toe the party line, no matter your own private views.

Unless, of course, you have privy knowledge that indeed he supported the cuts.

You claim that he doesn't need 3 phones. How would you know that he doesn't?

minsmum · 16/07/2023 21:35

https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1680649292334395393 Dents Prokopenko has resumed command of the Azov regiment after being released by Turkey

https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1680649292334395393