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Original poster

Police asking for an apology from ds

261 replies

Driventodistraction0 · 03/07/2023 14:24

DS (17) got into a scuffle at the weekend with a friend. Each hit each other once, no physical harm done. It was a stupid argument over a girl and we’ve said how disappointed we are and emphasised what harm for both of them it could have led to. He is feeling really bad about it, he has been really struggling with his mental health anyway. He has apologised to the friend and friend has accepted. The police rang last night and said they wanted to speak to DS (they were at the scene when it happened). The police have said that he will not be cautioned but that they want him to sign an apology. They said this apology would be seen on future enhanced CRB checks. He wants to train as a teacher so I’m gutted this is the case. We’re all for the police coming to talk to him but this is the first time he has ever been in any trouble ever. I’ve tried to Google how long this would stay on a crb but can’t find anything.

OP posts:
QuizzlyBears · 04/07/2023 06:34

I agree with everyone else that it sounds like a community resolution. I agree you need some advice, another option is to call your local area youth justice service/youth offending team and ask to speak to their police officer. They are usually the ones who issue community resolutions to youths and will have knowledge of how they relate specifically to young people/be able to advise on things like longer term impact.

mycoffeecup · 04/07/2023 06:57

This is too important for advice from randoms on the internet. You need a solicitor.

Coffeetree · 04/07/2023 07:01

I agree, I can't imagine why you haven't engaged a solicitor for proper advice.

adviceneeded1990 · 04/07/2023 07:02

This is possibly very unusual but I’d get legal advice rather than just refusing to sign. My ex and his friend had a scuffle at a house party age sixteen and seventeen, police were called. They refused to accept cautions, can’t remember full details but the police got pissed off and CPS charged both boys with assault on each other. They’d made up by then but both got a fine and a criminal record. Sometimes a community resolution or caution is lesser of evils.

thedancingbear · 04/07/2023 07:04

The best thing for your son to do would be not to get involved in fights.

He wants to be put in charge of kids in the next few years. If he can’t control his fists now, clearly that’s a potential concern. The DBS system exists for a reason.

OMG12 · 04/07/2023 07:04

TarquinOliverNimrod · 04/07/2023 06:34

utter hyperbole 🙄

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its not hyperbole - tell that to people who have had their lives ruined or families of people who have lost loved ones through one punch

thedancingbear · 04/07/2023 07:05

QuizzlyBears · 04/07/2023 06:34

I agree with everyone else that it sounds like a community resolution. I agree you need some advice, another option is to call your local area youth justice service/youth offending team and ask to speak to their police officer. They are usually the ones who issue community resolutions to youths and will have knowledge of how they relate specifically to young people/be able to advise on things like longer term impact.

Yes, get on the phone and explain you’re a middle class family. Then it will all be fine.

OMG12 · 04/07/2023 07:10

Restlessinthenorth · 04/07/2023 06:30

What a load of rubbish. Ex police office here. As someone who has attended to hundreds of fights, I assure you that whilst tragic, it really is very unusual for there to be catastrophic outcomes from a single punch. You are being incredibly dramatic. Young lads get into situations like this all the time. It does not make them criminals.

OP I am sorry that the officers involved weren't able to use a bit of discretion. Its a sad sign of the times that this appears to be on the way out. Like all services, the police have outcomes to achieve and I can almost guarantee you that this is sign as a quick win. Get the kid to agree to a community resolution and it's a tick in the box with very little work for them. It alarms me that the other boy isn't being offered one; your son is most certainly being classed as the aggressor which is not as described. My advice to annoy pe would be not to sign anything, ever, without legal advice, regardless of how friendly the officer is, or how insignificant the punishment is described. Just don't do it. Get legal advice

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So there was no assault? Just because it’s not in your experience doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. The BIL of a close friend recently had his life support withdrawn after receiving on punch.

boys will be boys though eh? An assault has occurred, a crime has taken place. You don’t know the full facts, the police who witnessed this do. Maybe they are trying to use their discretion by not pressing charges🙄

one thing we both agree on, the DS needs legal advice

MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 04/07/2023 07:13

Seek legal advice

OMG12 · 04/07/2023 07:13

thedancingbear · 04/07/2023 07:04

The best thing for your son to do would be not to get involved in fights.

He wants to be put in charge of kids in the next few years. If he can’t control his fists now, clearly that’s a potential concern. The DBS system exists for a reason.

Agree 100%

IncompleteSenten · 04/07/2023 07:15

He should not sign anything without taking legal advice.

Parkermumma07 · 04/07/2023 07:15

Wa he arrested?
was his friend arrested?
was he interview?
in interview did he admit the assault?
if he did admit the assault and had no previous he can have a caution, sounds like he is getting a conditional caution. If he refuses to sign it and does not comply with it (if he dosent apologise) he can be charged with the offence.

so by refusing to sign it he could end up worse off.

Emotionalsupportviper · 04/07/2023 07:26

RunningFromInsanity · 03/07/2023 14:47

A fight between 2 grown men leading to them physically assaulting each other?
That’s exactly the sort of thing the Police should be involved in.

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No - a fight between two teenage boys.

Yes - police involvement - this is (I think) a breach of the peace), but it's ended with no injury either side, and the lads are still friends.

At one time the police would have just closed the matter and told them not to be so daft in future.

I agree with those who have said not to sign anything until you have spoken to a solicitor.

If this had been a domestic violence incident, and the woman had withdrawn her complaint, that would have been the end of it - why is it different here?

Iknowthis1 · 04/07/2023 07:35

A signed apology is an admission of guilt.
You need proper legal advice.

sadlittlelifejane · 04/07/2023 07:36

ReformedWaywardTeen · 03/07/2023 22:02

Do you know this makes me so cross. The police are always making excuses for poor investigation and conviction rates on serious crime yet waste time over a bit of silliness between two lads who have dealt with it at home.

Tell them no thank you, it has been sorted out between the two boys and their families, you do not think there is a need for police involvement and then see whether the other family have had the same. Because frankly, if they've not also asked the other lad to sign, that's out of order and they are apportioning blame for very little reason, which I would also question them about their biased behaviour.

I would then suggest a solicitor. As in my recent experience the police can get very nasty when told no.

Two different departments. Response vs CID.
On another note, where's the threshold of "let's not bother with this one"? Punching from a large male can be lethal. No doubt if he punched someone next time and killed them, the police would be slated for not having done enough the first time.

IdealisticCynic · 04/07/2023 07:38

As others have said, this sounds like a community resolution. If so, the apology is made out to the other party, not the police. If the other boy doesn’t want to pursue this, then it’s odd the police are taking this approach. It’s also more usually done following an arrest so you need to establish if the CR has been lawfully applied by the police.

There are potential consequences for enhanced CRB checks but it’s complicated. Something like this would normally show up in the discretionary section so wouldn’t always fall to be disclosed. BUT, and this is important, what is to be disclosed can change so just because it’s unlikely to be disclosed now, doesn’t mean it might not further down the line if the law is changed.

Stop wasting your time asking strangers on Mumsnet. Instruct a criminal solicitor who will take all the details of what happened from your son and can advise based on full information and not snippets of the facts.

I don’t mean to be harsh but I really don’t understand why people go online to ask for help on legal issues from unqualified strangers. This is too important not to go to a lawyer who knows what they are doing.

sadlittlelifejane · 04/07/2023 07:38

CharlieRight · 04/07/2023 04:13

The other lad hasn't been asked to apologise officially even though he threw the first punch and is a couple of years older (so 18/19 and an adult) and had his mates backing him up.
Quite an intimidating situation for your son.

I think the police see this as an easy win and want to get your DS to sign this apology in order to massage their crime figures. There is obviously close to zero merit in prosecuting. They have chosen him because they deem him to be the youngest and daftest and easiest to trick into their trap.
They don't GAF about his future which may or not be their remit, but it stinks that their targets are more important. It is your remit to look after his interests though, so you are in an adversarial situation with the police, therefore get proper legal advice and don't sign anything.

To other posters what was the kid supposed to do let his mate hit him until he got bored, get a grip FFS

This is crap. The boots on the ground don't give a flying fuck about stats. They are trying to sort an issue without going full force and charging when unnecessary.

thedancingbear · 04/07/2023 07:42

Emotionalsupportviper · 04/07/2023 07:26

No - a fight between two teenage boys.

Yes - police involvement - this is (I think) a breach of the peace), but it's ended with no injury either side, and the lads are still friends.

At one time the police would have just closed the matter and told them not to be so daft in future.

I agree with those who have said not to sign anything until you have spoken to a solicitor.

If this had been a domestic violence incident, and the woman had withdrawn her complaint, that would have been the end of it - why is it different here?

Show quote history

I respectfully disagree. My 17-year old nephew is well over 6ft and probably weighs 14 stone. He could do serious harm to a kid, or a woman. In a few years’ time, the OP’s son wants to work somewhere where almost everyone falls into this category. It’s not safe.

Also, the CPS often now pursues DV cases even where the victim has asked it not to prosecute.

IdealisticCynic · 04/07/2023 07:52

thedancingbear · 04/07/2023 07:42

I respectfully disagree. My 17-year old nephew is well over 6ft and probably weighs 14 stone. He could do serious harm to a kid, or a woman. In a few years’ time, the OP’s son wants to work somewhere where almost everyone falls into this category. It’s not safe.

Also, the CPS often now pursues DV cases even where the victim has asked it not to prosecute.

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The police/CPS have the power to pursue DV allegations where the woman is too frightened to give evidence, but it’s simply untrue to state that they do so “often”. Frankly they should do so much, much, more.

In any event this is not a DV matter and without evidence from the other party, it’s unlikely they would take it further (unless there is significant third party or independent evidence). Whether one thinks they should or not is rather irrelevant to what is being asked and plainly there are differing views.

L0bstersLass · 04/07/2023 07:55

Driventodistraction0 · 03/07/2023 21:51

The fact that I’m posting here shows that I wanted to find out about what signing/or not signing it meant. Also, I have no experience of anything like this. I know he’s done wrong and welcome the police to tell him the gravity of the situation but have no clue as to where we stand with regard signing apologies. I also don’t want to exacerbate the situation and possibly create harsher repercussions

Your son needs legal advice and ideally needs a lawyer with him when he sees the police. Do not let him go into this without the appropriate advice.

Fightyouforthatpie · 04/07/2023 07:58

HairyKitty · 03/07/2023 14:34

I hope someone who knows comes on the thread for you.
Im wondering what is the worst than could happen (nothing?) if both boys now deny that anything happened? Would the police just drop it? Isn’t this signed letter having an equivalent effect to a formal police caution? I can’t remember what the usual advice for this is

Yes, we should definitely encourage younger people to lie to the Police, that's going to create a much better future.

Fightyouforthatpie · 04/07/2023 07:59

It’s not that unusual for people to die from a single punch.

It is actually.

OMG12 · 04/07/2023 08:06

Emotionalsupportviper · 04/07/2023 07:26

No - a fight between two teenage boys.

Yes - police involvement - this is (I think) a breach of the peace), but it's ended with no injury either side, and the lads are still friends.

At one time the police would have just closed the matter and told them not to be so daft in future.

I agree with those who have said not to sign anything until you have spoken to a solicitor.

If this had been a domestic violence incident, and the woman had withdrawn her complaint, that would have been the end of it - why is it different here?

Show quote history

It’s different because it was witnessed (by the police) a domestic violence incident is unlikely to have been witnessed and any case will rely on the full cooperation of the victim.

thedancingbear · 04/07/2023 08:10

OMG12 · 04/07/2023 08:06

It’s different because it was witnessed (by the police) a domestic violence incident is unlikely to have been witnessed and any case will rely on the full cooperation of the victim.

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Quite. What if everyone involved in a football riot wrote a nice letter saying ‘the other fans are our mates really, please don’t prosecute’? All charges dropped?