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Original poster

Police asking for an apology from ds

261 replies

Driventodistraction0 · 03/07/2023 14:24

DS (17) got into a scuffle at the weekend with a friend. Each hit each other once, no physical harm done. It was a stupid argument over a girl and we’ve said how disappointed we are and emphasised what harm for both of them it could have led to. He is feeling really bad about it, he has been really struggling with his mental health anyway. He has apologised to the friend and friend has accepted. The police rang last night and said they wanted to speak to DS (they were at the scene when it happened). The police have said that he will not be cautioned but that they want him to sign an apology. They said this apology would be seen on future enhanced CRB checks. He wants to train as a teacher so I’m gutted this is the case. We’re all for the police coming to talk to him but this is the first time he has ever been in any trouble ever. I’ve tried to Google how long this would stay on a crb but can’t find anything.

OP posts:
PicturesOfDogs · 04/07/2023 00:31

No no and no.
Don’t sign anything.

JRWM · 04/07/2023 01:06

Sounds like self defence - proportionate force being used to defend himself (punch for a punch - yes I hear what you say about your DS strength and the friend going down, however the friend could have punched with same amount of force your son administered to them in defence, but your DS is as you say stronger thus not as physically affected).

As all have said, get legal advice, don’t let him sign anything or give a statement without representation and don’t let him accept a caution if it gets to that.

As for the rest of it, hopefully they learn that violence is not the answer and falling out over a love interest also is not worth it.

Good luck

Frogpond · 04/07/2023 01:34

Do not let him sign it without speaking to a solicitor, don’t trust what the police say and don’t take advice from random people. This has the ability to impact your sons future, or it could be nothing at all. But only a solicitor can tell you this.

Asthebellcurves · 04/07/2023 03:12

Absolutely do not sign. A friend of mine smashed a window while drunk almost a decade ago and can't take up an offer from the police because of signing a communication resolution - he's been an army officer for 12 years and has an impeccable record. He was told it would never be raised, and that was a lie.

CharlieRight · 04/07/2023 04:13

The other lad hasn't been asked to apologise officially even though he threw the first punch and is a couple of years older (so 18/19 and an adult) and had his mates backing him up.
Quite an intimidating situation for your son.

I think the police see this as an easy win and want to get your DS to sign this apology in order to massage their crime figures. There is obviously close to zero merit in prosecuting. They have chosen him because they deem him to be the youngest and daftest and easiest to trick into their trap.
They don't GAF about his future which may or not be their remit, but it stinks that their targets are more important. It is your remit to look after his interests though, so you are in an adversarial situation with the police, therefore get proper legal advice and don't sign anything.

To other posters what was the kid supposed to do let his mate hit him until he got bored, get a grip FFS

SpongeBobJudgeyPants · 04/07/2023 04:23

ReformedWaywardTeen · 03/07/2023 22:02

Do you know this makes me so cross. The police are always making excuses for poor investigation and conviction rates on serious crime yet waste time over a bit of silliness between two lads who have dealt with it at home.

Tell them no thank you, it has been sorted out between the two boys and their families, you do not think there is a need for police involvement and then see whether the other family have had the same. Because frankly, if they've not also asked the other lad to sign, that's out of order and they are apportioning blame for very little reason, which I would also question them about their biased behaviour.

I would then suggest a solicitor. As in my recent experience the police can get very nasty when told no.

This. Please don't sign. I will pm you why I think this.

CharlieRight · 04/07/2023 04:28

ReformedWaywardTeen · 03/07/2023 22:02

Do you know this makes me so cross. The police are always making excuses for poor investigation and conviction rates on serious crime yet waste time over a bit of silliness between two lads who have dealt with it at home.

Tell them no thank you, it has been sorted out between the two boys and their families, you do not think there is a need for police involvement and then see whether the other family have had the same. Because frankly, if they've not also asked the other lad to sign, that's out of order and they are apportioning blame for very little reason, which I would also question them about their biased behaviour.

I would then suggest a solicitor. As in my recent experience the police can get very nasty when told no.

An apology is an admission of guilt, that is why they they want it

iloveeverykindofcat · 04/07/2023 04:37

@Comefromaway I also know a teacher who was charged with assaulting a police offer in his youth.

The full story is that the officer was assaulting his then-girlfriend a peaceful protest, and the other cops damn well knew it though they wouldn't admit it of course.

OP, don't let him sign anything with a solicitor but even if he does, it won't necessarily bar him from teaching.

AngelAurora · 04/07/2023 04:52

Booktok · 03/07/2023 19:47

Yep please make sure your son knows people have died from a single punch

This, and I speak from nursing the poor chap who died from one punch. Turned into a murder investigation.

MumGMT · 04/07/2023 05:02

Driventodistraction0 · 03/07/2023 21:38

@WetBandits thanks 👍
The police happened to be close by, they didn’t see what happened and the fight lasted minutes if that. He definitely has been told by me in the past as to the devastating consequences of just one punch. His friend has said he won’t take it further. Friend hit first but ds hit him and he fell. Ds is a couple of years younger but is a lot bigger and stronger. I’ve talked to him about how he has to be extra disciplined generally because of his size. Friend is not been asked to sign a ‘community resolution notice’ I don’t know for sure what he’s said to police and I think because he went down ds is seen as the guilty party. They were both in the wrong, ds arguably more so?

So the adult threw the first punch, against a minor, but the police want to blame your son for defending himself?

Fuck that.

They were both in the wrong, ds arguably more so?
I don't think your son was in the wrong at all. He was defending himself.
The other guy is legally an adult and threw the first punch.

MumGMT · 04/07/2023 05:06

AngelAurora · 04/07/2023 04:52

This, and I speak from nursing the poor chap who died from one punch. Turned into a murder investigation.

Show quote history

This boy was defending himself.

It is instinct for many people to defend themselves if they are hit.

Are people really trying to say that this boy shouldn't have defended himself?

If someone hits me and I hit them back and they hit their head and died then that wouldn't be a "one punch" murder. It could be for the first person who threw a punch though.

If I didn't defend myself I'd be more likely to be seriously injured (or die).

OMG12 · 04/07/2023 05:19

So your son committed a criminal offence. It’s not that unusual for people to die from a single punch. Maybe if your sin is of a mindset to punch a friend over a girl he’s probably not in the right mindset to be a teacher?

Maybe this is a lesson to learn the consequences of his actions. I know it’s popular on MN to hate the police. But if someone had walked up to your son and punched him, he had fallen over and banged his head to be left with permanent brain damage what would you want the police to do then, it was pure luck this didn’t happen here.

The police have every responsibility to stop crime, your son committed a crime. Maybe he needs to accept the consequences. As for all the shouts of “haven’t police got better things to do” actually no, this is a crime which could have had fatal consequences- your son needs a sharp lesson to stop it ever happening again. Would you have wanted someone teaching your child who assaults people?

OMG12 · 04/07/2023 05:21

Sorry posted too soon. If you think your son has a defence you should pursue this with the police. Whether it is an acceptable defence is a matter of law. In which case get a solicitor

YukoandHiro · 04/07/2023 05:26

No don't sign. Say that the friend has accepted the apology and doesn't want to press charges so as far as you're concerned the matter is closed unless the police choose to charge (they won't)

Pipsquiggle · 04/07/2023 05:27

Please get legal advice.

You don't want this on his record.

I once hired a nanny who was done for minor shop-lifting when she was 17 - she was still explaining this misdemeanor decades on (in her 50s) as it came up on her enhanced DBS check.

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 04/07/2023 05:29

Irritateandunreasonable · 03/07/2023 20:31

Absolutely fucking not!

no one’s pressing charges there’s absolutely no need to get this done.

You have watched too many American dramas.

There is no such thing as pressing charges here. Police can pass the matter to the CPS if they think they have enough evidence.

MumGMT · 04/07/2023 05:29

OMG12 · 04/07/2023 05:19

So your son committed a criminal offence. It’s not that unusual for people to die from a single punch. Maybe if your sin is of a mindset to punch a friend over a girl he’s probably not in the right mindset to be a teacher?

Maybe this is a lesson to learn the consequences of his actions. I know it’s popular on MN to hate the police. But if someone had walked up to your son and punched him, he had fallen over and banged his head to be left with permanent brain damage what would you want the police to do then, it was pure luck this didn’t happen here.

The police have every responsibility to stop crime, your son committed a crime. Maybe he needs to accept the consequences. As for all the shouts of “haven’t police got better things to do” actually no, this is a crime which could have had fatal consequences- your son needs a sharp lesson to stop it ever happening again. Would you have wanted someone teaching your child who assaults people?

Is it illegal to defend yourself in the UK?

If someone hits you and you hit them back in self defence is that a criminal offence?

The sons mindset seemed to be to defend himself after he was hit, not to punch a friend over a girl, he punched the friend after the friend punched him.

Pipsquiggle · 04/07/2023 05:51

From a police perspective, they probably want this 'signed apology' to help their stats as a 'positive outcome' - so good for them, potentially bad for your son

Please get legal advice on this and don't just capitulate to their wishes

ThePoshUns · 04/07/2023 05:53

The issue you gave is it was 'police witnessed' so it doesn't matter if the other person is making a complaint.
Has your son been interviewed under caution? I would seek legal advice from local criminal solicitor. Should be free.

ThePoshUns · 04/07/2023 05:57

Irritateandunreasonable · 03/07/2023 20:31

Absolutely fucking not!

no one’s pressing charges there’s absolutely no need to get this done.

This doesn't matter, the police were there they witnessed it and had to get involved obviously

ThePoshUns · 04/07/2023 06:03

Ah OP read your additional update.
If the other boy has made a complaint to police then your son is entitled to make a counter allegation.
This is why he should be offered an interview under caution to give his version of events. I really urge you to seek legal advice.
The police are under pressure to get crimes detected. In accepting a community resolution your son is accepting he is guilty. Like you say the consequences of that can be long lasting

OMG12 · 04/07/2023 06:17

MumGMT · 04/07/2023 05:29

Is it illegal to defend yourself in the UK?

If someone hits you and you hit them back in self defence is that a criminal offence?

The sons mindset seemed to be to defend himself after he was hit, not to punch a friend over a girl, he punched the friend after the friend punched him.

Show quote history

The concept of “self defence” is way more complicated than who threw the first punch though.

if the guy who did throw the first punch did so because he felt threatened (the OP has stated her son is much bigger than the other guy) and the punch could be seen as reasonable in protecting himself then it was this guy who initially had a self defence argument. Assault can include a situation where you’re in fear of violence.

similarly, punching someone who punched you is just tit for tat. It is an offence unless a defence can be made. For a punch to bd self defence it has to jump through a number of legal hoops, including reasonableness. Was it reasonably necessary in order to protect you from harm? Was it a reasonable amount of force? If the other guy punched the DS then dropped his hands:walked away etc and DS was no longer under threat then it becomes retaliation not self defence. The differing sizes and effects of the punch will prob play into this.

The OPs DS needs legal advice. We don’t have sufficient detail and only one side of the story here. The police did see it and decided to pursue, there will be a reason for that.

OMG12 · 04/07/2023 06:23

YukoandHiro · 04/07/2023 05:26

No don't sign. Say that the friend has accepted the apology and doesn't want to press charges so as far as you're concerned the matter is closed unless the police choose to charge (they won't)

You do realise that this is not the decision of the other boy though don’t you? The police and CPS would decide where this goes!!

if it was witnessed by the police then there is a possibility they will pursue this further. The kid needs proper legal advice not something regurgitated from a poorly written tv programme

Restlessinthenorth · 04/07/2023 06:30

OMG12 · 04/07/2023 05:19

So your son committed a criminal offence. It’s not that unusual for people to die from a single punch. Maybe if your sin is of a mindset to punch a friend over a girl he’s probably not in the right mindset to be a teacher?

Maybe this is a lesson to learn the consequences of his actions. I know it’s popular on MN to hate the police. But if someone had walked up to your son and punched him, he had fallen over and banged his head to be left with permanent brain damage what would you want the police to do then, it was pure luck this didn’t happen here.

The police have every responsibility to stop crime, your son committed a crime. Maybe he needs to accept the consequences. As for all the shouts of “haven’t police got better things to do” actually no, this is a crime which could have had fatal consequences- your son needs a sharp lesson to stop it ever happening again. Would you have wanted someone teaching your child who assaults people?

What a load of rubbish. Ex police office here. As someone who has attended to hundreds of fights, I assure you that whilst tragic, it really is very unusual for there to be catastrophic outcomes from a single punch. You are being incredibly dramatic. Young lads get into situations like this all the time. It does not make them criminals.

OP I am sorry that the officers involved weren't able to use a bit of discretion. Its a sad sign of the times that this appears to be on the way out. Like all services, the police have outcomes to achieve and I can almost guarantee you that this is sign as a quick win. Get the kid to agree to a community resolution and it's a tick in the box with very little work for them. It alarms me that the other boy isn't being offered one; your son is most certainly being classed as the aggressor which is not as described. My advice to annoy pe would be not to sign anything, ever, without legal advice, regardless of how friendly the officer is, or how insignificant the punishment is described. Just don't do it. Get legal advice

TarquinOliverNimrod · 04/07/2023 06:34

OMG12 · 04/07/2023 05:19

So your son committed a criminal offence. It’s not that unusual for people to die from a single punch. Maybe if your sin is of a mindset to punch a friend over a girl he’s probably not in the right mindset to be a teacher?

Maybe this is a lesson to learn the consequences of his actions. I know it’s popular on MN to hate the police. But if someone had walked up to your son and punched him, he had fallen over and banged his head to be left with permanent brain damage what would you want the police to do then, it was pure luck this didn’t happen here.

The police have every responsibility to stop crime, your son committed a crime. Maybe he needs to accept the consequences. As for all the shouts of “haven’t police got better things to do” actually no, this is a crime which could have had fatal consequences- your son needs a sharp lesson to stop it ever happening again. Would you have wanted someone teaching your child who assaults people?

utter hyperbole 🙄