Would you go to Paris on Monday?

[cobicat]

Just canceled a work trip to Paris due to concerns about the volatile situation there. I realize that central Paris is mostly unaffected (so far) but it seems like a bad time to visit. My boss (Paris based) has implied that I am being overly dramatic.

Would you go?

They looked exactly like tanks!!!!! Rolling down the streets. It was terrifying. I live in London and have never seen anything like it, my mother started crying she was so scared.

I've seen quite a bit of violence in France over the years. It always feels more lawless than the uk. Having said that, I'm going to fontainbleau next week so hopefully it will be OK!

There was limited use of armoured cars in the London riots. We saw a whole phalanx travelling down Camberwell high st.

Of course one part of the UK has been subject to all that sort of policing and more for decades.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't doubt being on the edge of one of these things is terrifying..especially if the vehicles get moving..

It's just that "tank" is a very specific thing, roughly defined as being tracked, heavy armour, big single gun on top.

Riot squad: Met looks to buy military-style vehicles to tackle disorder in London | London Evening Standard | Evening Standard

A list of military-style vehicles the Met currently owns is not available to the public.
However it has at least three upgraded bullet-resistant armoured Jankel Guardians, which cost about £100,000 each.
The seven-tonne personnel carrier can withstand AK-47 bullets and has a bomb-proof floor. It also owns 13 older Jankels, which were deployed during the 2011 London riots.

Absolutely not.

The Jankel

For when you really want to be safe in a riot

GuardianM-RAVBrochureUKv11email.pdf (jankel.com)

It was an armoured khaki coloured huge tank rolling down. It did not have a gun from what I could see but it was an absolutely enormous thing and had the same wheels as a tank. There were army trucks and all sorts surrounding it.
I remember the London riots well, it started 5 min from MIL house. There is something about riots in France that are different, like genuinely no one has control and they get so easily out of control. I don’t know if the years of football violence in England has helped our forces control things better here or it if it’s cultural. But I am not a fan of being stuck in the cross hairs.

Wr had a two year old with us at the time, and it’s not something we ever want experience again.

This is what they look like:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna948346

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/gulfnews.com/amp/world/europe/french-police-clash-with-yellow-vest-protesters-on-champs-elysees-1.1544266149918

@Fartughtyred , gosh, have you tried to put their shoes on your feet? Being seen as non-french even though you were born there and you grew up there and your grandparents lived there for decades. And there's zero chance you could get near white collar job regardless if you are smart or dumb, no matter if you work hard or you are lazy. There's no perspective in your life. Surrounded by people like you and those who slipped to the opposite side of law.

Can you imagine a life like that?

Sure, proverty exists in every country. But the French government has done very little (actually they don't even want to admit it) to change it, as that's not what's bothering their white French voters.

I don't like that demographic population, and I did my best to stay away from. But I do deeply sympathise them. For normal people, life needs to have a purpose and one needs to be able to see a brighter future. But for them, the entire group, there's no hope and the government can't care.

Do you know in French TV channels, you barely see non white face as news reporters and most of the commercial ads have only white faces?

@Ginmonkeyagain , I've not been to any areas in London overly dubious. So I can't really tell if there's any fair comparison or not.

I dug out a guardian article about that area which solely belongs to the gypsies for decades. Hostility between the population and the government renders the area ungovernable.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/sep/05/the-soul-of-perpignan-how-a-gypsy-community-halted-the-bulldozers

I suspect it's lot worse than what you can find in the UK.

I can't find a picture reflecting what we saw. I did not dare to take my phone out to take any photos. It's right next to the central tourist area.

@GCalltheway they're armoured vehicles not tanks but I agree they'd be pretty into intimidating!

@Return2thebasic ahh, yes St Jacques - a law unto itself that place.

@Return2thebasic "gosh, have you tried to put their shoes on your feet? Being seen as non-french even though you were born there and you grew up there and your grandparents lived there for decades. And there's zero chance you could get near white collar job regardless if you are smart or dumb, no matter if you work hard or you are lazy. There's no perspective in your life. Surrounded by people like you and those who slipped to the opposite side of law.

Can you imagine a life like that?

Sure, proverty exists in every country. But the French government has done very little (actually they don't even want to admit it) to change it, as that's not what's bothering their white French voters.

I don't like that demographic population, and I did my best to stay away from. But I do deeply sympathise them. For normal people, life needs to have a purpose and one needs to be able to see a brighter future. But for them, the entire group, there's no hope and the government can't care.

Do you know in French TV channels, you barely see non white face as news reporters and most of the commercial ads have only white faces?"

I am smiling as I read your very patronising comment. Actually I don't need to just simply imagine a life like that, being probably much better placed to comment than you might imagine. Can I ask, what is it that you don't like about that demographic group in France?

Well from my layman’s eyes with a toddler in a pushchair at the time, they are beyond intimidating and really really huge and wide and scary as hell.

@Fartughtyred I was not telling you what to do. I was simply shocked by your comments labelling them as trouble seeking without balancing the root cause. Society is rarely fair. But at least we can acknowledge and sympathise, a step forward to reducing the social imbalance?

I don't know why I need to explain to you at a personal level when you feel no need to articulate "your better position to comment" than others.

@Return2thebasic Clearly you are intent on misunderstanding my comments but yes, the 'casseurs' are usually the main trouble seekers and are sometimes even paid to do just that. I would also add that the demographic that you don't like (!) don't want or need your sympathy either.

Again, re read my reply, I said that I am probably better placed to comment than you may imagine, not just better placed per se, which it is unwise to assume too much about people you have never met on the internet!

I knew the young man killed was going to be North African or Sub Saharan African before I read the article.
France has failed to integrate its North African population effectively for decades. DH is Algerian and came to the U.K. in his 20s. He has family in France and we’ve stayed with them in the Banlieues of 3 major cities. You really get a sense of two separate worlds and only a limited number of wealthy and well educated professionals bridge between the two.

As an outsider white British Christian etc. I was struck by the relative segregation of groups.

It’s coming back to bite them now. It’s innate snobbishness that runs openly through French society, and yes racism.

Maybe this will be a catalyst.

Sounds like a tinder box tbh

Yes I would. My dd1 has left today to go to Paris.

Really how old is she?

She's 19. Interrailing with a friend.

😬