Would you go to Paris on Monday?

[cobicat]

Just canceled a work trip to Paris due to concerns about the volatile situation there. I realize that central Paris is mostly unaffected (so far) but it seems like a bad time to visit. My boss (Paris based) has implied that I am being overly dramatic.

Would you go?

@GCalltheway we'll read up on everything when we arrive at our destination later this afternoon, if we have to stay our hotel then so be it 🤷‍♀️.

We are on a pre booked holiday and there was no need to cancel as the FCO are not advising against travel to France (in any case if we did we would not have been able to claim on our insurance).

Where we live was one of the epicentres of the 2011 London riots (we sat in our living room and watch the Tesco nextdoor being ransacked, it was a febrile couple of days but we were fine.

Where did you read that? According to The Times, "Mayors in some parts of the capital have already introduced curfews".

It was in Calais on the first day of the protests. We had planned a day trip and only
found out when we arrived through the arrival announcement on the euro tunnel.

I'm pretty sure there isn't an 11pm.curfew across France but tbh it wouldn't affect me anyway as I'm in bed by then.

I think there is the option for curfews to be introduced by authorities in some cities.

We had one in London for a couple of days after the riots, they are not as scary as they sound, more annoying.

SIL lives in Paris and it’s on the local news: 9pm public transport stops. It is 7pm in Marseille and some southern cities. It’s a moving picture across France but it’s expected to be very difficult this evening due to the funeral being held today.

we haven’t had riots or curfews in London for years and years to be fair 🤷🏼‍♀️

I arrived in Paris yesterday. It seems the same as usual, but I go back to hotel early and think the riots are much later at night.
i think DH would have been pleased if I’d cancelled . . .

The most sensible advice on the entire thread!

No we haven't. But there is no point us worrying about it right now. We'll have to do what we are told when we get to our destination.

I never see the point in catastrophising.

This.
But you know... drama

I guess it also the major ballache of not being able to get home, delays and knock on effects even if you are not directly affected by the riots, it hardly makes for a restful break.

Well we'll see. We are Londoners so ninja level public transport users.

The 'vermin' comment was ill advised by the French Police, however it has been taken out of context and was used to describe the 'casseurs' ie, profiteering thugs who infiltrate and hijack legitimate protests with looting, arson and violence: "La police a affirmé dans un rapport de renseignement divulgué qu’ils étaient « en contact avec des hordes sauvages de vermine » avec l’intention de les attaquer et de détruire autant de biens que possible.

Translation: Police confirmed in an intelligence report that they were "in contact with savage hordes of vermin" with the intention of attacking them ( the police) and destroying as much property as possible.

France is pretty much a law and police state. You just need to stay away from certain areas.

Yes, strike affected travel would be more of a concern.

You never ever ever use language like that to describe anyone, much less a section of society that has seen another teenager killed by the police, they are already living in terrible poverty and conditions with an undercurrent of racism and discrimination that is now at boiling point.

The language used is entirely unacceptable, and reinforces their primary issues.

We were walking through one of the arrondissements (where I later found out there had been significant clashes about street prayers being banned) a few years ago and the atmosphere was an absolute tinder box. We had two small children with us and the streets were really crowded (a street market) and it was baking hot. It's hard to describe but as we went to cross the road a fight literally broke out with us in the middle, a guy went to punch another guy almost across me. Everyone completely ignored us though, before and during, apart from we just looked very out of place. We just scurried away.

Buses and trams stopped at 9pm but the metro is still running as far as I know. Most of Paris isn't under a curfew, let along most of France.

It's sensible to keep an eye on how things develop of course as things may change.

@Parisj , certain areas in Paris you wouldn't want to go through without constant vigilance even in broad daylight. But only those certain areas...

What you said reminded me the experience we had in Perpignan last year. Right next to the centre touristic area, we wandered off taking the wrong turn. Absolutely bonkers - couldn't believe we were in one of the richest European countries. Never been to any place like that. Even in broad daylight, my skin crawled. It was the longest 20 minutes walk in my whole life.

The problem is that the French state has separated certain demographic groups from the white French population, by housing (tower houses all in one area), by education, by employment (discrimination), literally leaving those population to fend themselves for decades.

SIL and friends have gone to the mountains. It’s safer and less likely to erupt there.

Just checked... The metro stops running an hour early this weekend, so just after 1am instead of the usual weekend time of 2am.

@Return2thebasic there are certainly areas like that in many large French and Belgian cities, but only Naples really made me feel uncomfortable.

I suspect there are areas of London that may make a casual tourist feel a little less than comfortable

@GCalltheway As I said, the legitimate protesters are not the problem nor were they describing any particular section of society, although the most vulnerable and disenfranchised are often used to stir up trouble as cannon fodder by hardline extremist groups on both sides of the political spectrum.
There have been many small shops and businesses run by and for the 'section of society' that you refer to, that have also been looted and trashed and the interviews with some of the shopkeepers affected and who now face an uncertain future were heartbreaking. The term 'shitting on your own doorstep' comes to mind.

As for terrible poverty, yes there is poverty, as there is everywhere, however french state benefits are generous and whilst there will always be those who slip through the net sadly, France is not a third world country.

The French Municipal police/Gendarmerie do not use "tanks" on the street...

They do however have some fairly beefy wheeled personnel carriers/water cannon.

We're adjacent to one of the larger French cities, all quiet locally and would have no qualms about going into town.

Also know Paris well enough to be happy enough to visit there ATM as well...but it pays to know the geography, something that applies to many cities around the world.

@Return2thebasic "The problem is that the French state has separated certain demographic groups from the white French population, by housing (tower houses all in one area), by education, by employment (discrimination), literally leaving those population to fend themselves for decades"

Spot on, and the youth are now vulnerable, disenfranchised and caught between two cultures.