Child free group of friends. One friend has had a baby

[Shebaguinea]

I'm in a group of about 10 friends in our 40s. Always been child free. Lots of conversations about not wanting children. Several friends do not enjoy being around kids at all. Id prefer to not be around kids, but will phone it in and do my best to try to help out friend.

1 friend unexpectedly found herself pregnant after a short relationship and now has a small baby.

Things are now becoming difficult socially. Friend often requests help/babysitting/people to go to child friendly events and soft play etc. I do not babysit. Never changed a nappy, never wanted a child etc. but I've cleaned her house, helped with laundry, batch cooked for her etc.

She now wants more help and has suggested a babysitting rota so she gets a night off a fortnight. None of us want to do this. I've always helped with cooking and cleaning and have done lots of lifts for hospital and dr appointments...but I most definitely do not want to help with childcare. None of us do.

Are we awful people? Friend seems to want us to step in as family/other parent and help her. I'm happy to assist with other things but honestly I don't want to.

Good point!

When my breastfed baby was 11 months old I went on a four day transatlantic business trip. I did the same again two months later. He self weaned at 16 months.

I would say that if engorgement is still an issue at 11 months postpartum you must be breastfeeding your baby an unusual amount.

This thread has taken a weird turn. People arguing about shit & engorged breasts 😂

Yes but it's the mother that can suffer engorgement if there's a sudden drop in feeding? Whatever baby's age

Well as others have said, it doesn't appear this is an issue for the OP's friend, since she wants her friends to babysit her baby while she goes out.

I give up! The UK has rubbish rates of breastfeeding for a reason, people know naff all about it. And are similarly rubbish towards new mums (old misogyny comes into play heavily here).

OP, your friend needs new friends, hopefully in future yours will be supportive of each other however life changes for each other.

And that's a choice made by the friend. The op and the child free friendship group do not have to change their socialising to accommodate a child. I breastfed my own and am well aware of the mechanics. It's a choice that I made and the consequences of that choice were mine. Enough of the friends have agreed to meet in a child friendly environment occasionally, but that appears to not be enough for friend, she seems to think her child should be centre of the whole groups world, and that is completely unreasonable.

That reason is definitely not because breastfeeding mothers can't get their child free friends to do free babysitting.

This thread is utter madness

If the OP had come on as a mother saying that her friend wanted all her mum friends to sign up to a babysitting rota because she had had a baby, even though she could afford to pay for childcare people would quite rightly be saying the friend is a CF.

But because the OP is childfree, suddenly she is responsible for the friends non existent PND, whether or not she can breastfeed and is being told she is selfish and unsupportive despite cooking and cleaning for her friend.

And now it's apparently because of mysoginy. But apparently the levels of mysoginy in expecting childfree women to take on childcare responsibilities because the child's male parent is uninvolved are apparently irrelevant

Because you know, it's takes a village, but only if the village is female and we can socially ostracise them for not being maternal enough.

If you read back that's not what I said

So how is the fact that the OP and her child free friends don't want to do free babysitting relevant to low breastfeeding rates in the UK?

👏👏👏

@Catchasingmewithspiders here here. The implied judgement about OP and her friends here is sad and sexist. OP, you have been a terrific friend and while it’s evident that your friend is struggling, it sounds like you have been kind, present and supportive. You’re allowed boundaries as to what support you are able or willing to offer.

No - if you'd actually read what I'd said - I've already agreed above that it's (obviously) unreasonable to suggest OP should be taking on a babysitting rota.

What I am saying is that it's misogynistic to say 'she's made her bed so she needs to lie in it', which is the prevalent theme on this thread. That's the logic that's been applied to women throughout history and it's ignorant of basic biology and its impact on women.

‘She’s made her bed’ is being said within the context of the woman choosing to have a baby, and expecting her friends to reorganize their social life around said baby.

Someone having to accept the consequences of the choices they freely made is not misogyny. Her life is the one that has changed, and it’s in her to come to terms with that. Her friends do seem to have been supportive of her. Because they aren’t bending entirely to her will doesn’t make them bad friends or misogynists.

But it is up to the OP's friend to sort out her own childcare. The same is true of every parent. There are hundreds of threads on here by the married mothers of planned children expressing disappointment that their children's own grandparents are unwilling to provide free childcare, or that they aren't happy with how the free childcare is being provided, and the answer is always the same. Pay for childcare. And if you can't afford it, tough.

The OP's friend might not have chosen to become pregnant but she did choose to have a baby. The UK has some of the most liberal abortion laws in the world. She chose to keep her baby in the full knowledge that the father did not want to be involved, she didn't have family close by, and her friends are not interested in babies. It was a perfectly valid choice to make, but it was her choice. Not her friends' choice. They didn't sign up to be part of her child raising village. They actually signed up to be part of their own "no kids here, thanks" village. Hopefully they will be able to lean on each other as they get older, rather than relying on the children they don't have.

The OP's friend's child is very much not their circus, not their monkeys. But she now wants to change the unwritten rules of their friendship.

What she should do is pursue the father for child support and use the money to pay a babysitter once a fortnight so she can go out with her friends.

If I had been replying to your post I would have replied directly, or tagged you in

As I was replying more generally to the themes of the thread I added a post more generally.

What I am saying is that it's misogynistic to say "you should provide childcare its easy to change a nappy you unsupportive friend, the burden of childcare should fall on women" which is the prevalent theme on this thread. That's the logic that's been applied to women throughout history and it's ignorant of basic biology and its impact on women.

@Catchasingmewithspiders 👏👏👏

Someone having to accept the consequences of the choices they freely made is not misogyny. Her life is the one that has changed, and it’s in her to come to terms with that. Her friends do seem to have been supportive of her. Because they aren’t bending entirely to her will doesn’t make them bad friends or misogynists.

Very well said!

This person had complete agency and chose to make a drastic (and frankly imprudent) lifestyle choice, one that doesn't mesh with her existing social circle. She needs to cope with that, not expect others to change.

What if the social circle were built around sobriety, and one of the members decided to start drinking alcohol, and then wanted all sorts of accommodation, validation and physical labour from the sober friends, to compensate for her own reduced energy, capacity, ability to focus, etc.? Would anyone think that was reasonable?

What if the social group were atheists, and one member suddenly got religion? Would you expect them to attend services with her, and contribute manual labour to her church activities?

If we want to blame mysoginy for this blame the OPs friend and blame the father

There's a lot of talk around how the OP should understand breastfeeding and nappy changing and how hard having a small baby is.

You know who should actually understand that, the child's father. Not the woman to whom the information is completely pointless because she doesn't want children.

The OPs friend had two choices. To have sex. To not have an abortion. I do not judge either of those choices.

The father had two choices. To have sex. To not actively be a father. I absolutely judge the second choice.

The group of friends had no say in any of these choices yet are somehow being expected to deal with the consequences at levels far beyond normal. And being judged for being inadequate women for not doing so.

That's why people are saying "you make your bed you lie in it". Because apparently someone else made the bed but thinks they have the right to force the OP to sleep in it.

Someone on this thread said this friendship group seems conditional. Isn’t that how a lot of friendship groups or clubs are formed? Same values, beliefs, wants out of life?

The reason why so many women here are having a go at the OP & her friends is due to the child free part. One now has a child so her wants and needs take precedence because she is a single mother. CF women are still vilified, seen as having something wrong with them for not wanting kids. It’s better than before but not much. Just take a look at the request for a childfree board. A lot of ‘go away you’re not wanted on MN.’

The main reason their friendship started was because they knew they didn’t want children. It’s evolved and strengthened but doesn’t change the fact that the foundation is based on being childfree by choice. That is a big condition & in this world where CF women are still insulted and made to feel less than for not having a baby, it’s important for to keep that bond strong. No one is cutting off the mum friend, they are just saying they don’t want to facilitate her life choices which is at odds to the the foundatio of the group. 1 woman out of 10 has chosen a different path, yet the it’s that 1 that is demanding the other 9 bend over backwards for her.

Mothers will never understand the abuse a lot of us get, from our own parents to strangers. For some being childfree is a big part of their identity, because all through their life they’ve been told they’re not normal. The friend although still part of the friend group is no longer part of the childfree friend group. She is the one that has to adapt, change & compromise.

Well said, @cleanmartini

The other facet is: I would seriously lose respect for someone who made this choice. To carelessly bring a new human to the world from a one-night stand with a disinterested, absentee father is not something I would ever condone or facilitate. I'm not sure I'd want to continue a close friendship with her.

Let alone sacrifice my time and energy so she could go out partying multiple times per month.

Careless indeed. It's almost impossible to get pregnant accidentally if you are using contraception properly.

I would expect a single woman in her 40s who is serious about not getting pregnant to be using a reliable form of contraception such as the pill or coil if she is in a relationship, and condoms as well if she has a one night stand. If she's doing that, the chances of her getting pregnant are virtually nil, especially in her 40s.

I would seriously lose respect for someone who made this choice

it’s not ever going to be ‘someone’ in this position though is it? In can only ever be a woman.

would expect a single woman in her 40s who is serious about not getting pregnant to be using a reliable form of contraception

didn't really see the misogyny before but I’m seeing it now and it’s dangerously close to using pregnancy as a punishment for a woman having sex that you see in prolife arguments.

The child free aspect is increasingly becoming a red herring. Choosing not have or be involved with children is absolutely valid lifestyle choice but it’s not a valid justification for unleashing negative judgements on another woman. It’s just not.

cheeky fuckers infiltrate all areas of life and it comes down to creating boundaries or removing yourself from their lives. The commentary and judgement on anything not directly affecting you is just unnecessary sticking the boot in and looking down on people. It doesn’t serve any purpose whatsoever and generally just makes everyone involved feel shit and angry over situations they have no control over.

It's not misogynistic in the slightest to say that someone who doesn't want children should use contraception properly.

The same is true of the father; the only difference is that condoms are all he has, whereas women have multiple extremely reliable options to choose from in addition to condoms (which everyone should be using as standard when they have casual sex).