My DD was injured at school, school want a meeting, what will happen?

[CupCakeForTheBirthdayGirl]

DD is 9, in Y4.

On Friday it was my DDs birthday and I put a small cupcake in her lunchbox*.

Another girl in the class, pushed DD off the bench thing making her bang her head and meaning DD was sent home. The girl also got DDs cupcake out of her of her lunchbox and ate it.

DD has told me but this hasn't been confirmed by school or the other girl, that the girl asked DD to swap the cupcake for a chocolate bar and DD said no because the school rules are you don't share or swap food/

For context both girls have an EHCP. I am friends with the other girls mum and she will not allow the school to apply for further funding for a 1-1 at lunchtime for her child – she’s told me this several times, she thinks a TA would hold her daughter back and she doesn’t want it, she also only allows a TA in core subjects at school (English and Maths). My DD doesn’t have 1-1 at lunchtime as the only help she would need would be with packaging or cutting up (when shes on hot dinners) but the lunchtime staff are aware she needs this help and it’s part of their job description. DD does have 1-1 in wordy subjects like English, History and Geography she also has help in a small group in other subjects which is funded by her EHCP.

DD was sent home from school, and I had to take her to A+E. For context DD is the youngest in the class (not the year though, 3 classes per year) but also the smallest in the entire year. She’s the size of your average 4-year-old. DD was ok, just had a bad nose bleed and sustained a concussion, due to her medical issues she was at risk of breaking her nose, or fracturing her cheek or eyesocket so had to go to for an X-ray.

School now wants a meeting with me tomorrow to discuss “going forwards” I’m terrified, they’ve always said I co-operate and they’ve never had issues with discussing things with me. I’m worried they’re going to say DD now needs lunchtime supervision, I’ll take it if they offer it but it does seem unfair DD is going to have to be supervised because the other parent won’t allow their child to be.

It's a mainstream state primary school, cofe if it makes a difference.

*This is as per school rules before anyone says anything - policy says “Please only give 1 of cake (slice of, cupcake or 1 packet of the prepacked mini cake bars), or 1 of chocolate bar (such as a penguin or 2 finger kitkat) or 2 biscuits (2 disgestive with or without chocolate on) or 1 packet of crisps. All products including sandwich fillings must be nut, peanut and sesame seed free” – it was a small cupcake with a small amount of icing.

Due to unfortunate experiences with schools... l would be prepared for them to victim blame.

I feel that the school have a duty to protect your child and at a minimum, your DD should not be seated near the other child.

For goodness sake, do not be terrified. You need to hold them to account, not the other way round. How are they going to safeguard her? She should not need a 1-2-1 because another child can’t behave. You need to pressure them, because if you roll over she probably will be the one with a TA because the other parent won’t budge. Really the school should be telling the parent that following a serious incident the other child has to have a TA at lunch. If SEN wasn’t involved I think this is an incident a child would be suspended for - I mean for goodness sake she had to go to A&E and was concussed. If they can’t adequately assure you she is safe then ask for the complaints policy and follow the process or write directly to their governors.

No school would offer 1-1 if it's not in the EHCP 🤷‍♀️
Maybe they want to chat about what they can do to prevent injury again.

Maybe the school are going to insist the other girl has the one to one for lunchtimes and having a "meeting with another parent about safeguarding all the children in the school" is the way they are going to enforce it on the other mum?

I don't know anything about EHCPs, but the idea that a child can be denied the support they need because the parent won't consent is barmy. It's a recipe for neglect to be not just unchallenged but unchallengeable.

In this case it's not just the other DC's needs being neglected, it's having an impact on other DC like yours.

Can they start excluding a child with SEN if the parent refuses the recommended EHCP changes? That might concentrate her mind, when she has to take time off work to look after an excluded DC.

In terms of OP's attitude, from her description it sounds like it could be a connective tissue disorder like osteogenesis imperfecta (brittle bone disease) or Ehlers Danlos. Understandably parents of kids with such conditions, and the kids themselves, often become quite blase about injuries; they're very much par for the course. Broken finger? Strap one to the other and carry on. Dislocation? Pop it back in yourself and carry on.

From what you've described I would hope they are trying to get in there early with massive apology for not supervising the other child properly and keeping your dd safe. That sounds horrific, your poor daughter.

I would be expecting this meeting to discuss how your child will be looked after. I would consider it a serious incident - it's not common to have to go to A and E and is logged in a different way. They have a duty o care and need to show they are taking it seriously.
On a side note, the other mum doesn't dictate what happens with her child in school. Yes, the EHCP can't be changed without her permission but that only actually covers what legally must be provided for the child. It's usually less than what is needed! Staffing is not discussed and even 1:1 often isn't even mentioned, rather just what is needed IE support in X subject or an intervention to support social skills for z amount of time weekly. If a child is regularly violent then school would work their staffing to cover this whether there is funding for 1:1 or not.

@IBetGordonRamsayDoesntHaveTheseProblems It is EDS, you're right that it's par of the course. DD has come home from school with dislocated knees, a fractured eyesocket, cuts on her ears from flying footballs/beanbags. A concussion and a nosebleed is at the minor end of the scale for injuries, hence my reaction of "it could have been much worse".

I would hope they will be discussing a lunchtime 1-2-1 with the other parent involved or asking her to take her child home for lunch if she won’t support it.

I suspect they will be looking to apologise to you and reassure you that changes will be made.

I think the meeting will be to discuss what can be put in place to ensure that your DD is safe going forwards.

They won't be able to discuss the other child at all. It will be about what's the best way to keep DD safe when she's eating and when she goes out to play afterwards.

Having extra support at lunchtime doesn't necessarily mean having an adult permanently attached to her throughout. It's more likely to involve having an adult who is nearby and who will hang back unless needed.

The school will want to discuss what you think DD needs. Some parents would want someone next to their DC at all times. Others might prefer a more hands-off approach. They won't know which your personal preference is until they've met with you to discuss it. They will then probably write up a lunchtime plan for DD and ask you to sign to say that you're in agreement with it.

Your child banged her head hard enough to sustain a concussion after being pushed by another child. That is more than a run of the mill bump or graze. It could have been a lot more serious. It is understandable that the school want a meeting to discuss the incident with you and they probably would for a child without a ECHP

Yes, they can. There is no requirement for parents to consent to what goes into an EHCP. The parent cannot insist on this at the expense of your child's safety.

Your school SENCO and the council seriously need some basic education in SEN law, or else they're lying to you. It's absolute nonsense that they have to have your agreement to any changes in the EHCP. If that were the case, the Special Educational Needs Tribunal wouldn't exist, would it? But it does exist and is incredibly busy because, guess what, councils regularly put things into EHCPs that parents don't agree to, and fail to put things in that parents want.

When DD was pushed off the jungle gym at playtime (the gap for the fireman pole, so not somewhere you'd expect a safety barrier) and broke her arm, school wanted a meeting too. It turns out they need to write and update their risk assessments anytime there's an incident requiring hospital intervention. Not sure if this is usual, but could it be this?

You need to make it clear at the start of the meeting that you want to come out of it with a plan of action that ensures your child is safe in school. Make a note of everything that they agree to put in place for that purpose, and confirm it to everyone present at the meeting in writing afterwards.

On the basis of my children's experiences of being hurt at primary school, I'd assume it was to tell you that either nothing happened or my child had exaggerated things.

Only stopped for my children when I said that if a random person harmed my child in the street I'd call the Police and I would do that next time they was hurt in school.

The violence stopped overnight.

I would want a very robust plan in place to protect your dd. As you say, it could have been a lot worse. And may be it will be if your friend allows there to be a next time. Honestly I’d struggle to be friends, with a woman, who is being obstructive and attempting to refuse to allow her daughter a 121 when this is required to protect your dd, knowing she has EDS. The school needs to take action now.

Any changes to the EHCP would be made following an annual review. It could be an emergency review if it’s felt that the provision in place isn’t meeting the needs of the child. The school could request additional funding, based on the fact that the girl needs more support.

I don’t really understand why the girl’s mother is opposed to more support, given that her daughter already has an EHCP.

Anyhow, go to the meeting with an open mind, but ask very clearly what steps the school will take to keep your DD safe in the future and make sure everything is documented and follow up with an email, reiterating what was said.

As I have said my DD does not need 1-1 support at lunchtime.

Her issues are mainly physical, so other than packaging and cutting up she doesn't need help at lunchtime, I'm not opposed to it, but she doesn't need help socially, and the others in the class are generally lovely to her and include her, she gets party invites and does out of school activities, she's just very small and a bit of a risk. So I don't see why she'd need it when opening packaging and cutting up food is included as part of lunchtime staffs job (and they're aware of DD needing this help so seek her out to assist).

She does have 1-1 for some classes as she's also dyslexic, and she has 1-1 on school trips. Again both funded by the EHCP.

No idea why the other mum is so opposed to extra help for her daughter.

*bit of a risk of dislocating or breaking a bone

You are minimising this. The fact that the other child has additional needs doesn't make what happened ok. Your daughter was injured. I would expect the meeting to be about the schools investigation of what happened and what they are going to do to make sure it never happens again.

A meeting just means "we're aware something serious has happened, we need to review things to make sure everyone is safe." Please go with the attitude that school is trying to ensure all pupils are safe in school. Because that is what they're doing. And btw, if school come to the conclusion that a child needs extra adult supervision, they do not need parent permission for it. It's very common for SEN provision such as lunch time supervision to be in place without extra funding being there for it, because schools greatest priority is to keep children safe so if necessary they fund it themselves.

Your poor dd.

I have to say that if they will fund a 1:1 lunchtime for your dd, I'd take it. It's another adult about, that adult will likely not interfere with your dd if she is managing fine with her lunch, but is perfectly entitled to speak with another child (such as the child who pushed your dd) if their behaviour is unacceptable. It's disappointing the other mother will not accept a 1:1 for her child, but you might have the power to get that adult there anyway, if that adult is assigned to your dc.

My db is a teacher and had a child in the class who had a 1:1. The child who had the 1;1 was not problematic, but that extra adult got my db out of a severe problem with another child, who had no support, but actually needed a 1;1 or more suitably, a PRU.

So update.

They kept trying to blame DD saying she had obviously pointed out the cupcake (I believe she will of, it was a special treat) and she may have led the other child on to think they'd agreed a swap or they could have it. I reminded them about the school rule and how I'd told DD to follow that rule and why (due to allergies or not being allowed something due to religion/parents views). And she probably wanted to eat it herself. She had sweets in her bag to hand out at the end of the school day to eat child (mini haribo bags) that where for giving out.

HT then asked if I'd considered lunchtime 1-1 for "DDs safety", I asked how it would work and why they wanted 1-1. They basically said they feel DD needs marking/spotting due to her height and that they'd not get involved socially unless they needed to. I asked how exactly that would help DD apparently it would prevent her being injured similarly again because there would be someone watching her at all. I outright asked if it was to keep DD away from this child and they just said they can't make comment on other children and the whole classes safety had to be considered which I took to mean they're getting nowhere with the other mum so want to put it in place using DD instead.

They listed all the accidents DD has had in school since she started in 2018, but only 1 other incident concerns another child, DD took a tumble on the playground and her friend grabbed her to stop her falling and fell down with her. Safeguards where put in place and the children where told not to touch DD and let her fall, but that they could help her up or fetch a teacher. So I don't feel it's actually needed. The other accidents where all in the classroom, where DDs tripped over thin air, or fallen off her chair, she even sneezed once and popped a blood vessel in her eye while her TA was sat with her. I don't see how lunchtime supervision will help.

I asked for time to think about it and we have another meeting planned to discuss transition to Y5 and looking ahead to Y6 and beyond next week. I get their point of view, but it did feel like they were trying to blame DD, who just wanted to eat her cake and go and play outside with her friends.

Until now I've had no issues with the school, they've always shown concern. The HT has called me and been on the phone to me while DDs been down in theatre for surgery, one of her previous TAs had a baby and made a special visit to school on a day DD was feeling a bit poorly and let her cuddle the baby. I have no concerns overall about the school or DD being there. I just don't see how the lunchtime help will help. I thought it might come to this.

I wonder if they might simply be using your DD's EHCP as a conduit/excuse for a 1-1 that they can actually deploy for the other child in a roundabout manner.