MISSING TITAN SUB - THREAD 5

[tortoishelll]

Thread 5 - a continuation.

My heart aches for those poor men and their families. 💔😔

I get that prisons of war or natural disaster sites have become tourist attractions.

But the titanic is simply too dangerous to visit . Im sure it's fascinating. But as much as I wouldn't venture up Everest to see where people died , nor would I visit a ship wreck at the bottoms of a vast ocean in a vessel that didn't have a safety certificate just because I was curious.

Prisons of war (former) are now museums and I think it's important to keep the horror of their stories alive for future generations.

I visited the site of a volcanic eruption in santorini- I felt nothing but sadness . The Roman vases and town were perfectly preserved, it's a museum showing how the Romans lived and is fascinating if you can forget that people died simply going about their daily business which I struggled with .

Titanic is so remote , and just so dangerous to get to - the risks have been made clear by todays events . It's not worth the risk . So for me - leave it be .

My son who has asd , well one of his obsessive interests was the titanic so I researched it . Found an authentic newspaper from the day it sank . It's just too sad to contemplate.

Where it is , really means it's not for public viewing.

The things being found out aren't about why the Titanic sank, but about what is happening to the wreck in the deep seas. For example, the bacteria halomonas titanicae, and its action on metal. And the research would benefit from repeat visits to see how fast it is consuming the wreck.

If this mission had not ended in disaster, and had it filmed footage of the wreck that could be compared to other footage from earlier trips, that area of research would have advanced.

my heart aches for that young lad, coerced into going on this clearly horrifically dangerous ‘adventure’. I can only image his feelings as the submersible was sealed from the outside. I feel so angry with the dad. I know it’s wrong but I just do. I have a son that age who loves sci Fi and rubix and chess. I know how he would have felt he needed to do an adventure with dad if pressurised. It’s unbearable.

Sad situation

the best outcome would of course for them to have been rescued alive.

this is probably the second best outcome. At least it will have been quick.

suffocating in that tin can would have been the worst

thoughts with the loved ones

So why didn't this happen on any of its earlier trips? If it was simply "the pressure"

There was a catastrophic failure, but we are unlikely to ever know for sure what that failure was, or how it came to happen on this descent.

Yes, there are parts of the construction that are attracting a lot of comment. But we don't, and probably never will, know for sure.

I mean it could be. But that's just a bullshit response. Obviously ethics are socially created therefore somewhat subjective. But in this instance were all operating within the social conventions of our society so there's no subjectivity in this ethical issue. It's a shitty unethical thing to do.

Kant's thoughts on subjectivity were more around aesthetic s no? he talked about a universal / human moral though, and surely disturbing a disaster site would be thought of by most humans as universally wrong.

Or were you hoping to chuck Kant in there and win?

I also think dangerous expeditions are needed if we want to further our knowledge and understanding of the world. The Titanic wreck is a landmark site, and has yielded many new observations in how materials decay at pressures and temperature combinations not naturally found up here. Indeed, as someone mentioned the discovery of a new bacteria may give us new understanding about prokaryotes helping future generations.

Titanic is now basically an accidental reef - albeit incredibly deep. But scientists would have been crazy not to have jumped at the opportunity to study it in my opinion.

Where have you heard his dad pressured him into it? Do you have a link for this information?

It will likely be similar with space, once humanity has our Stargate Sg1 teams, then the galaxies could be full of various creatures and civilisations.

They were so confident of her unsinkability that they provided the minimum number of lifeboats they could get away with, which turned out to be nowhere near enough for the number of passengers.

Where is the report of manslaugter charges? Because that's what due

It is a horrible situation. A whistle-blower sacked over safety fears and yet they allowed this mission to continue despite previous concerns over safety. Been confirmed the technical issues experienced by past travellers. I would like to know why it took 9 hours though to raise the alarm by the company who developed this vessel and have evidently something to hide.

I could be wrong, but does that depend on the waivers ?

@massiveclamps White Star Line and Harland and Wolff the builders provided lifeboats with a capacity that actually exceeded the Board of Trade (UK Government) requirements at that time!

There have been marine engineers working on the Titanic for decades now, after it sank. That's when marine engineers do most of their work, after the fact. They are working on the whys and wherefores of the sinking/

I think you should take a look at your own moral compass too!

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/shahzada-suleman-dawood-titanic-sub-imploded-b2362670.html

Reuters saying this re waivers:

Waivers are not always ironclad, and it is not uncommon for judges to reject them if there is evidence of gross negligence or hazards that were not fully disclosed.

“If there were aspects of the design or construction of this vessel that were kept from the passengers or it was knowingly operated despite information that it was not suitable for this dive, that would absolutely go against the validity of the waiver,” said personal injury attorney and maritime law expert Matthew D. Shaffer, who is based in Texas.

OceanGate could argue it was not grossly negligent and that the waivers apply because they fully described the dangers inherent in plumbing the deepest reaches of the ocean in a submersible the size of a minivan.

The degree of any potential negligence and how that might impact the applicability of the waivers will depend on the causes of the disaster, which are still under investigation.

"There are so many different examples of what families might still have claims for despite the waivers, but until we know the cause we can't determine whether the waivers apply," said personal injury lawyer Joseph Low of California.

OceanGate is a small company based in Everett, Washington, and it is unclear whether it has the assets to pay significant damages, were any to be awarded, but families could collect from the company's insurance policy if it has one.

Families could also seek damages from any outside parties that designed, helped build or made components for the Titan if they were found to be negligent and a cause of the implosion.

OceanGate could seek to shield itself from damages by filing a so-called limitation of liability action under maritime law, which lets owners of vessels involved in an accident ask a federal court to limit any damages to the present value of the vessel. Since the Titan was destroyed, that would be zero.

But OceanGate would need to prove it had no knowledge of potential defects with the submersible and would carry the burden of proof, which legal experts said is a difficult burden to meet.

If OceanGate were to fail in such a case, families would be free to file negligence or wrongful death lawsuits.

So his aunt is saying he was pressured into it, yet in the same articles she’s stating that she’d ‘lost touch’ with her brother for some years 🤔

Here’s the passage:

In an interview published before the tragic developments were announced, Dawood’s sister Azmeh Dawood told NBC News that her nephew was absolutely scared, and only agreed to go on the expedition because it was important to his “Titanic-obsessed” father. Suleman reportedly told family members he was concerned about the tour and “wasn’t very up for it.”