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Deposit dispute. As landlord, am I being a dick?

163 replies

landlordQ · 19/06/2023 15:40

I have one rental flat. I keep it maintained to a high standard, respond to tenant requests immediately etc. I know some people don't believe in BTLs full stop and think all landlords are bastards but I would like some advice nonetheless.

My tenant has just left. Her contact stipulates the flat is returned having had a professional clean. It was cleaned professionally prior to her moving in. She has not done this, but she has made a fair effort to clean it.

I have a new tenant moving in and they have requested a professional clean, so I must provide it. There are a few stains on the carpets, the white goods haven't been cleaned and there are a few other missed bits.

Would it be unreasonable to dispute this cost with my previous tenant and try to reclaim the money for the cleaning from their deposit? It's in a deposit scheme and was managed by a letting agent so all above board. the LA thinks I can reclaim it because it's in their rental contract, but as she gave the cleaning a good go I feel bad to ask her to cover the full professional cleaning cost (£300).

OP posts:
Finlesswonder · 19/06/2023 15:42

I think what's dickish is having that in the contract

OhBanana · 19/06/2023 15:43

Long term renter here. Yes take it out of the deposit. She broke the contract. Even if not stated in a contract I would get a professional clean at the end of a tenancy. Someone has to go in and clean and her contract states she should have to pay for it. You would absolutely win a case with the dps if she contested it. Tough on her, she chanced it and it hasn’t paid off.

landlordQ · 19/06/2023 15:44

Finlesswonder · 19/06/2023 15:42

I think what's dickish is having that in the contract

It's a standard tenancy agreement set up through a large, well known letting agency. Pretty sure it's not unusual.

OP posts:

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IamRoyFuckingKent · 19/06/2023 15:45

Take it out of her contract. Why should you be £300 down because she cba to clean the fridge? You're legally allowed and morally I think it's fine too. I'm not a renter now but have been and always left it immaculate.

Brendabigbaps · 19/06/2023 15:45

lots of years renting here!
she hasn’t kept to the contract and it still needs more cleaning. She needs to pay for it

OhBanana · 19/06/2023 15:45

Finlesswonder · 19/06/2023 15:42

I think what's dickish is having that in the contract

It’s completely standard, I’ve never rented anywhere that doesn’t stipulate this. It’s also good manners to leave someone else’s property how you found it!

saraclara · 19/06/2023 15:48

I didn't realise how standard this contractual requirement is, at least in London where flats change hands pretty regularly.

I've just helped a friend find a reasonable end of tenancy clean. It was exceptionally thorough and means a new tenant can move in straight away. And my friend didn't have to stress about his deposit.

I'm in two minds about whether, in general, tenants or landlords should meet this cost. But in this case, if it's there in the contract, and the flat hasn't been left professionally clean, then the tenant has not meet their responsibility.

Iris1976 · 19/06/2023 15:48

As a lifelong tenant it's never been in any of my contracts that it had to be professionally cleaned but left as found,which was very clean.I also made sure I thoroughly cleaned any white goods and paid for carpet cleaning.
New Tenant can't demand professional clean unless they want to pay, I'd get the carpet and white goods cleaned only and charge that to previous tenant.

Sarahtm35 · 19/06/2023 15:48

I don’t think you’re being unreasonable if it’s in the contract however I think £300 to clean a 1 bed empty flat is a bit steep.
maybe I’m out of touch but how many hours worth of cleaning is that? And how much would it cost in carpet cleaning?

CwmYoy · 19/06/2023 15:49

Of course she must pay.

landlordQ · 19/06/2023 15:50

It's a 2 bed place, not one. It needs carpet cleaning and white goods.

I didn't renew her tenancy after she didn't pay the rent - or paid it very late - over and over.

OP posts:
landlordQ · 19/06/2023 15:51

It's in London. I'm spending my afternoon searching for cheaper quotes so the financial burden on her is as low as possible.

OP posts:
Blossomandbee · 19/06/2023 15:51

Your two choices are get it cleaned and take it out of her deposit as per your contract, or if you want to overlook that and it's acceptably clean then tell the new tenant it's rented as seen?
I used to rent and never had a property that had been professionally cleaned before I moved in, as nice as that would have been.

IWD23 · 19/06/2023 15:51

That professional cleaning clause would likely be found unfair/unreasonable if challenged in court, but what is reasonable as a landlord and tenant is that the property is in the same condition at the end as the beginning, less reasonable wear and tear.

You also don't HAVE to get a clean done for your incoming tenant, they have asked and you are free to say no.

landlordQ · 19/06/2023 15:53

Incoming tenant asked for professional clean and it was agreed via agents. It's always been stipulated in contracts anyway and I want to be as accommodating to wishes of tenants as possible.

OP posts:
Lovepeaceunderstanding · 19/06/2023 15:53

Finlesswonder · 19/06/2023 15:42

I think what's dickish is having that in the contract

Why?
I have it in every one of my contracts with tenants.
@landlordQ my view would be that it is reasonable to expect a property to be cleaned as you would your own home during the tenancy but that your contract stipulates (as do all of mine) that at the end of the tenancy it should be professionally cleaned and that is what should happen, your new tenant deserves it. We run a business not a charity.

landlordQ · 19/06/2023 15:55

Thanks all. I had planned to pay or split the cost but you're right - it's a broken contract. Much appreciated.

OP posts:
Finlesswonder · 19/06/2023 15:55

A "professional" clean is about getting into all the places a normal person with normal equipment can't. Considering many (most?) people who live in a house they own don't get their houses professionally cleaned, I don't see why the burden is on the tenant

saraclara · 19/06/2023 15:56

Sarahtm35 · 19/06/2023 15:48

I don’t think you’re being unreasonable if it’s in the contract however I think £300 to clean a 1 bed empty flat is a bit steep.
maybe I’m out of touch but how many hours worth of cleaning is that? And how much would it cost in carpet cleaning?

My friend's covered loads of stuff I wouldn't expect. Including oven cleaning (which I guarantee he wouldn't have done!). Oven cleaning alone can cost £100 near me, so add carpet steam cleaning, windows, skirting boards etc and it adds up. I think there were two cleaners there for at least half the day (they turned up at seven with a LOT of equipment) for a one bed flat.

When you're busy packing up and moving out and into somewhere else, the chances of being able to do that good a job on moving day are very slim.

landlordQ · 19/06/2023 15:56

@Finlesswonder it's specified in a contact they signed and was provided for them at the start of their tenancy

OP posts:
TonysGaff · 19/06/2023 15:57

Her contact stipulates the flat is returned having had a professional clean.

You are haven't been allowed to stipulate that tenants must pay a professional end of tenancy clean since 2019. You can only state that it must be returned with the same level of cleanliness, ie to a professional level if it was professionally cleaned when they moved and described as such in the inventory. If you insist on a professional clean, the tenant can reclaim the cost from you. You can also be fined.

You can't charge your tenant for a £300 professional clean just because the new tenant wants one. As part of the property has been cleaned to a professional standard, it would be betterment to charge the tenant to have the entire house professionally cleaned. It is saving you money to fulfil the new tenant's request.

However, you can charge your tenant for cleaning the items that were not cleaned to a professional standard. It would not cost £300 to clean the white goods and spot clean the stains though.

However, given that you have an illegal clause in your contract, you might want to let it go.

Ohmylovejune · 19/06/2023 15:58

The clean sounds fair. If the carpets don't come up perfect, then I'd not say they should be covered as there's bound to be wear and tear costs. But the clean, yes.

I don't blame her trying to do it but I don't think may of us would get that level of cleanliness doing it ourselves.

landlordQ · 19/06/2023 15:59

@TonysGaff but it hasn't been cleaned to that standard. She's cleaned it in a way one night on a Saturday morning; not deep cleaning.

OP posts:
landlordQ · 19/06/2023 15:59

@Ohmylovejune so she should have had it cleaned professionally then, no?

OP posts:
Seasonofthewitch83 · 19/06/2023 15:59

I thought the law had changed so you cannot force a tenant to pay for a professional clean?

From Shelter:

Tenant must pay for professional cleaning. This is not fair and cannot be enforced. Fees like this are now banned.

Shelter icon

Letting agent and tenancy fees - Shelter England

Most fees are banned if your tenancy started on or after 1 June 2019. This applies to private landlords, letting agents and property guardian companies.

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/letting_agent_fees_for_tenants