Deposit dispute. As landlord, am I being a dick?

[landlordQ]

I have one rental flat. I keep it maintained to a high standard, respond to tenant requests immediately etc. I know some people don't believe in BTLs full stop and think all landlords are bastards but I would like some advice nonetheless.

My tenant has just left. Her contact stipulates the flat is returned having had a professional clean. It was cleaned professionally prior to her moving in. She has not done this, but she has made a fair effort to clean it.

I have a new tenant moving in and they have requested a professional clean, so I must provide it. There are a few stains on the carpets, the white goods haven't been cleaned and there are a few other missed bits.

Would it be unreasonable to dispute this cost with my previous tenant and try to reclaim the money for the cleaning from their deposit? It's in a deposit scheme and was managed by a letting agent so all above board. the LA thinks I can reclaim it because it's in their rental contract, but as she gave the cleaning a good go I feel bad to ask her to cover the full professional cleaning cost (£300).

No it's not. I rented for almost 10 years via letting agents and never once saw this. It's unacceptable to try to force the tenant to pay for a professional clean.

You can asked for it to be the same standard of cleanliness as when they moved in, but you would need to be able to prove any differences with time stamped photos etc.

What even is a 'professional' clean? Which professional body are you needing your cleaner to be part of?

It doesn't matter who does the clean, it just needs to be put back in the state it was found in (obviously minus wear and tear).

The OP has already said that the property was professionally cleaned for her to move in. So it's perfectly legal for him to require the same when she leaves. That's how the present law works.

I hope you are not a landlord, @saraclara.

It is not legal to require a tenant to have a property professionally cleaned, only to leave it as clean as it was then they moved in. The tenants are prefectly entitled to do it themselves. The tenant hasn't cleaned the white goods. OP can only charge her for cleaning them, not the entire house.

The carpet stains are an entirely separate issue. They would only be hoovered in a normal EOT professional clean. If the stains are more than fair wear and tear, and the carpets were in good condition on move in, OP can charge for having the stains cleaned.

@saraclara that actually isn’t true - landlords cannot any longer insist a property is professionally cleaned regardless of what the tenancy agreement says.

DPS wouldn't side with you on this one.

Carpet stains will be seen as fair wear and tear, unless excessive.

Ask for £100 or whatever it costs for white goods cleaning, sure.

I've been a landlord for 15 years or so.
If the tenant was good, ie paid on time, didn't trash the place, I never, ever take money from deposit.

I always get a professional clean regardless and never take it out of the deposit as long as the tenant treated my property with respect.

I always think they're going to need that full deposit for next property and want to thank them for being a good tenant. I've had bad tenants and the difference is always clear.

I'd return full deposit and pay for a full clean or do it myself.

If she had cleaned to higher standard then I wouldn't deduct but as it still needs cleaning (who doesn't clean the white goods?) deducting is fair, but less than the total amount of deposit if the bill is lower.

My last rental said professional clean but I admit I did it myself and got my full deposit back, landlord commented it was very clean, who did we use as he'd use them for his other properties, I did come clean, he thanked me again. So it's not the fact you paid, it's the standard of cleanliness that matters, oven, hob, fridge, rubber bit on the washing machine if it's theirs etc.

Have been renting for over 20 yrs in a couple of countries. I have always paid for a professional clean at end of tenancy. You are not taking the piss by asking for that.
I did have an estate agents try to hold on to the deposit saying it wasn’t cleaned to their standards but the ( very lovely) landlord said that it was cleaner than when we moved in and if they have any issues to raise it with the professional cleaners…

You have your property back and it's not full of nappies or dog shit. Just pay the £300 and move on with your life.

I rent out a property so I am not anti-landlord. If this is the extent of your void maintenance you have a lot to be grateful for. If you can't afford this you can't afford to be a landlord and should sell.

Previous posters have pointed this out but I will re-emphasise:

You CANNOT insist they get professionals to clean. You can only ask that it is returned at the same level of cleanliness- regardless of who achieves this. If it is as clean as when they moved in, it is irrelevant who cleaned it.

It’s a really dangerously perpetuated myth that if it’s in the contract they have to abide by it. Letting agents are, typically, utterly awful for knowingly getting people to sign contracts that are entirely garbage and not worth the paper they’re printed on.

Honestly, half of the clauses in letting contracts are a complete waste of time. Tenant rights and landlord rights supersede any contract.

So no, you can’t withhold deposit unless you can provide evidence that the house is not as clean as when they moved in. You can’t even stipulate that carpets need to be professionally cleaned, which is another common clause that people fall into the trap of.

We had this with our old landlord (not as steep as £300 though), we did clean white goods and attempted to clean the carpets the best we could. They still tried to deduct nearly £100 from us.

We got our deposit back in full when we pointed out that it was clean enough for the new tenants to move in and asked the landlord to show that it was us that hadn't cleaned properly rather than the new tenants making their own mess. If it wasn't clean enough for new tenants they shouldn't have moved them in straight away and should've cleaned in between.

Bear in mind we moved over Christmas so by the time they got around to charging us the new tenants had been in almost three weeks.

OP, did you have an inventory taken, with pictures, at the beginning of the current tenancy? Did you and the tenant sign this off? If so, there's an agreed record of the state of the property at the beginning of the tenancy. You should have this, but I don't think you mention having one.

You can't demand a professional clean, and you can't enforce an unfair clause in a contract (and a tenant can't sign away their rights) but you can require that the flat is returned to you in the same state as it was taken on, less any reasonable wear and tear.

I do extra between-tenancy cleaning at my rental property, because even the best intentioned and most diligent tenants miss bits, and I consider that work part of the costs of running the business. I hand over a very clean property, and the state is recorded in the inventory, which is signed off. This sets expectations and allows me to be pretty clear and firm about what 'clean' means. The last tenants rushed out the door and didn't do a thorough job, although they'd done something. So I totted up the extra hours I had to do, on top of what I would normally do anyway, the car-parking I had to pay, any extra cleaning materials I had to buy over and above normal requirements, and I came to an agreement with about how much of their deposit I would retain.

If you have already agreed that her deposit will cover the last month's rent, I suppose this isn't really available to you.

Still, all lessons learned for the next tenancy.

I mean this nicely but… no, you didn’t have to. Your agent told you that you had to, and you (very reasonably!) believed them- because it’s their job to know, surely?

Except that they have always known that it is an unenforceable clause and have preyed upon people’s lack of expertise in the area.

Even before 2019, it was unenforceable- it’s just that until 2019 they could legally charge cleaning fees if these fees were stated in the contract. It has never been legal to insist on “a professional clean”.

Honestly, letting agencies are one of the scammiest professions out there.

My contract didn't say to have it professionally cleaned but I did and I did another clean myself too. My landlord wants a big chunk of my deposit for cleaning (an already clean place). It's with the deposit protection scheme and I'm hopeful it is on my side. And it's going to take 28 days.

But as she didn't fulfil her contract I think you can deduct the cost of a professional clean. But can you be bothered if it goes to the deposit protection scheme?

I am a landlord, I would not deduct it from the deposit and I think you will find it is not that easy to do in all fairness. Regardless of what a contract states, my view is to expect a cost when the previous tenants move out to prepare for the next one moving in.

As a landlord I would have it cleaned between tenants and would expect to pay for that myself.

I would also expect the tenant to leave it in a reasonable state and would only keep back the deposit for serious mess or damage.

I think you just have to put the cost of that down the business costs.

As far as the new tenant is concerned I would say ‘the flat has been cleaned and this is how it is - take it or leave it’ and change the contract accordingly.

@Dippydinosaurus - I honestly wouldn't bother with a professional clean. As I've said I did and I did a clean and it was spotless. My landlord still wants a big chuck of my deposit. For that money I could have just left it.

It seems that landlords do this with you move out. My landlord was decent until I gave notice.

You can't enforce a 'professional clean' in a tenancy agreement. You can however enforce 'to a professional standard'

Therefore I don't believe you can subtract the full cost of a professional clean as you have stated they have made a reasonable effort to clean.

You may be able to recover the costs of hiring a carpet cleaner for example, provided you have photographic evidence of before/after, and that your tenant didn't live there so long that the damage could be deemed fair wear and tear.

(I work for one of the accreditation schemes for letting and managing agents in the private rented sector)

You can't force people to pay for a professional clean, as long as they clean to the same standard they got it.

If she was a tenant for 10 years, you'd struggle to claim for carpet stains under fair wear and tear. If they've been in a year then you have more grounds.

We had professional clean in our contract. However, they hadn't given it to us at a professional standard. The lettimg company we used had independent check in / out people that listed in the official report that by comparing photos we'd left the property cleaner than when we got it.

It seems to be normal to have this as part of the contract now, I do think £300 is far too much though.

What is NOT ok is these professional cleaning companies charging absurd fees for the job. Cleaning carpets and white goods for £300? That's nothing less than daylight robbery!! That would take maybe 4h max? Even if it took 5h at £20 per hour would be £100. Why can't you just contract a cleaner and pay her for the hours it takes? Landlords should not be encouraging this!!

I'm not sure carpet cleaning falls under professional cleaning. That's normal wear and tear no? It'll look worse now than when she first rented it as it sounds like she got keys to a freshly renovated flat, which it no longer is.
She should've cleaned white goods properly.

And what really pissed me off when I was a tenant was that professional clean doesnt equal high standard clean. We always had to have them come back as the standard was so low. Sticky surfaces, dusty skirting boards, greasy cookers. Disgusting 🤢

This happened to me- I left the place cleaner than I got it and they came back with parts they'd found that werent clean to a professional standard. I was raging that I hadn't taken pictures of what it was when I arrived, of dust in the wardrobes, crumbs wedges in the kitchen table where the glass top hasn't been taken out etc. It was heart breaking. We had cleaned the place and it was immaculate, the bits they came back with were ridiculous. I can't even remember the specifics.

When I was renting I couldn't afford £300 cleaning fee so used to spend a couple of days cleaning every inch to save the money. The one time I missed something (a stain on the carpet and forgot to do the Venetian blinds) the landlord kindly let me go back and finish the cleaning myself. You could extend your tenant the same kindness.