Deposit dispute. As landlord, am I being a dick?

[landlordQ]

I have one rental flat. I keep it maintained to a high standard, respond to tenant requests immediately etc. I know some people don't believe in BTLs full stop and think all landlords are bastards but I would like some advice nonetheless.

My tenant has just left. Her contact stipulates the flat is returned having had a professional clean. It was cleaned professionally prior to her moving in. She has not done this, but she has made a fair effort to clean it.

I have a new tenant moving in and they have requested a professional clean, so I must provide it. There are a few stains on the carpets, the white goods haven't been cleaned and there are a few other missed bits.

Would it be unreasonable to dispute this cost with my previous tenant and try to reclaim the money for the cleaning from their deposit? It's in a deposit scheme and was managed by a letting agent so all above board. the LA thinks I can reclaim it because it's in their rental contract, but as she gave the cleaning a good go I feel bad to ask her to cover the full professional cleaning cost (£300).

Everything that @Rainydaysandicecream has said!
I think it is unreasonable to expect a tenant to pay for a professional clean .As long as the property has been looked after , cleaned to a certain level ie clean loos etc then it's up to the landlord to ensure property is ready for next tenant.

Sounds fair to me.

I came on asking for advice, not asking to be told I should charge the tenant, so I appreciate mixed responses. What I'm going to do is pay for a professional clean myself and have that itemised, then request the tenant pays for the carpet and white goods cleaning parts. It's with a deposit scheme so they can decide.

How do you know she didn't have a professional clean? I paid for a so called 'professional clean' before I moved into my place and while it was superficially clean, I had to clean all the cupboards and built in drawers etc as they were filthy.

Do professional cleans include carpet cleaning which is what you're talking about? Does the contract states exactly what's included?

This!

And normal wear and tear is to be expected.

Tbh I would see this as a business expense for you as a landlord that you can claim tax back on.

Have you ever seen a professional end of tenancy clean, @landlordQ? They only take a few hours and they are not a deep clean. They do make sure there is no visible dirt though...

You can get one-off domestic cleaning for about £20 an hour in London. You can charge the tenant for however many hours it would take to clean the white goods and anything else that wasn't cleaned to a professional standard. You can't charge her to have the entire placed cleaned by a professional just because the new tenant wants that.

You can charge her to have the stained carpet cleaned but not the whole house, as long as the stains aren't fair wear and tear eg the carpets already had old stains or other damage, or they are just a couple of drips by the door mat where you might expect wear.

On the other hand, as I said, you have an illegal clause in your contract that carries a fine of £5000+.

I believe that if this gets referred to the Deposit Protection people for adjudication, they will uphold that it's not reasonable to specifically require that the tenants pay for a professional clean, only that the cleaning must be done "to a professional standard" ie to the same standard as if you were paying someone. Whether they uphold that "to a professional standard" includes things like getting the carpets shampooed and cleaning out the fridge will depend on whether those sorts of things are actually specified in the contract. If not, then it would be reasonable for the tenant to assume that "to a professional standard" would mean the level of cleaning you would get if you pay a cleaner to come around and do a thorough clean for 3 hours (i.e. for about £40 max) not a "deep clean" with a team of cleaners and a carpet shapooing machine which is what would be expected for the £300 you wat to charge.

Obviously given the rent issues, she must be having serious money problems and would have needed to do the cleaning herself as she didn't have the money to pay for it. If your contract specified a list of tasks that weren't carried out then YWNBU to deduct some of the deposit (up to 50% of the cost of the full clean you will be doing, as that cost would be the same if she hadn't done anything and she has clearly done a lot). If your contract wasn't specific then I think you should swallow the cost this time, but mak sure the contract is specific about the standard expected and the level of deep-cleaning tasks to be included, so that you are making it totally clear that hoovering all the carpets and making sure all the bathroom surfaces etc are clean is well below what you are expecting.

I’m an LL. I paid for a professional clean before my tenants moved in, but I don’t have it in my contract because wear and tear would override it anyway. Unless she left something horrific that was picked up in exit inventory you wouldn’t win in a dispute.

To be honest, if she did a decent clean I would let it go. New tenants cannot demand a professional clean and will only be expected to return it to inventory levels of clean, so if you’re acquiescing and doing a clean it’s kinda on you - and very nice of you. New tenants can pay for a clean if they want (I did in the 15 years I rented for) and I did a good clean when I left and was never charged by an LL.

I doubt very much that an end of tenancy cleaning company will itemise the bill. If they did that, everyone would realise that they are being ripped off 😂If they do agree, I would imagine that the numbers will be totally made up at random to make up the correct total cost.

If you want to be fair to the tenant, you need to:

1. List the items that are not up to standard.
2. Check the cleanliness of those items in the inventory.
3. Check that the entire house is described as professionally clean in the inventory. Just because you had it professionally cleaned, it may well have been dusty or have limescale build up in the loo by the time the tenant moved in, or they might not have done such a great job...
4. Get a quote from a cleaning agency to just clean those items.

The deposit schemes will only adjudicate on whether the tenanat has left the property in the same condition as when they moved in minus fair wear and tear. They can't adjudicate on things like illegal clauses in contracts.

The tenant would have to report that to trading standards, I believe. You could be fined £5k if she does...

just because you wrote it in the agreement doesn't mean it's enforceable.
You could only specify outcomes, not the means. So you could write that it has to be clean, but not how they achieve it.
Not to mention, the property must be left clean and free from personal items regardless - ie you don't need to write anything bout that at all in reality.
Maybe the tenant would not argue it any just pay up, but we argued everything every time and usually got the lot bck (except for genuine, non wear and tear damage)

Most tenancy agreements I've signed have been 5/10/15+ pages long, and all could have been two pagers in reality.
Usually including clauses about non existent septic tanks, or that we have to have the windows cleaned every 6 weeks....

Agree with the others that this is unfair. If she had left it in a state, then it would be different but she left it in good condition, cleaned and with normal wear and tear.

Legally, you would lose in court as it is a dickish request, and already ruled illegal.

And not legal since 2019

You clearly can't charge her the whole fee. You could only possibly charge her for the difference between how she acquired it and how it's been left (less reasonable wear and tear for that period).

This kind of messing around takes far to long. Get your Marigolds on and a bottle of Pink Stuff and get the place sorted.
I've paid for a couple of professional cleans as a landlord and the standard is lower than what I do myself. Having 48hrs between tenants is much better than weeks of quibbling and no rent coming in.

I think it's shit if you make her pay it tbh

That professional cleaning clause would likely be found unfair/unreasonable if challenged in court, but what is reasonable as a landlord and tenant is that the property is in the same condition at the end as the beginning, less reasonable wear and tear
That's what our landlord did before it was made illegal to charge outgoing tenants for professional cleaning.

Perhaps have a look at the Tenancy Act 2019, OP. If your Letting Agent is not aware of this I'd be using someone else. You can enter into a dispute to recover costs if something requires a clean or has been damaged but the tenant is not obliged to undertake professional cleaning anymore, since the Act was passed. The obligation is to leave it in the same state (save wear and tear) that it was found and full photo and invoice evidence etc will be required to prove otherwise for a claim.

From the Gov.UK website as an example: link in full here

You cannot require a tenant to pay for a professional clean when they check-out. However, if the tenancy was entered into before 1 June 2019 and a tenant agreed in their contract to pay fees for cleaning to be provided, you could continue to charge these fees up until 31 May 2020.

From 1 June 2020, the term requiring that payment is no longer binding on the tenant. You may request that a property is cleaned to a professional standard. Tenants are responsible for ensuring that the property is returned in the condition that they found it, aside from any fair wear and tear.

Fair wear and tear is considered to be a defect which occur naturally or as part of the tenant’s reasonable use of the premises. Further, tenants with COVID-19/COVID-19 symptoms who ensure the property is returned in the condition they found it cannot be charged for an additional deep clean of a property.

You cannot require a tenant to use a particular company to clean the property. If the property is not left in a fit condition, you can recover costs associated with returning the property to its original condition and/or carrying out necessary repairs by claiming against the tenancy deposit.

You should justify your costs by providing suitable evidence (e.g. an independently produced inventory, receipts and invoices). You are not able to claim deductions from a tenant’s deposit for any change in the condition of the property which is due to fair wear and tear.

Why? She hasn’t bothered to clean the white goods. That’s why it’s in there - people are lazy.

OP get someone to clean what she hasn’t as charge her that.

This is correct. You'll have to check the cleanliness against the inventory photos as they need to leave it in the same standard (minus wear and tear) and put in a claim via the deposit scheme. So if it's white goods and a bit of cleaning you won't get the full professional clean amount back. They'll decide the fair amount to charge the tenant not you

Just to add I'm a tenant and will be paying for a professional clean when we move out as we've been here a long time and I'm not even going to try to get it back to how it was when moved in it was spotless. We don't have to but it's just easier

How much of the carpet stains etc can be classed as "wear and tear" and as such have you been claiming that against tax.
That's what we do anyway.

As long as you have photos and receipts then claim against the deposit. But the renter may dispute and it can be a pain.

Sometimes it's just easier to write the cost off against tax.

Why? It’s illegal that’s why.

OP can rightly charge to clean that white goods but that doesn’t stop the clause about professional cleaning being illegal, and therefor dickish. I’d be worried about an estate agent who thinks it’s ok to have this sort of clause too. But this is what happens when any prick with money can play landlord.

Professional cleaning is pretty standard in most contracts. When we rented we had to provide receipt of the professional clean so if she isn’t able to then it’s ok to charge her.

@landlordQ sorry, what l mean is is there receipts or anything like that to show proof.

The OP has already said that the property was professionally cleaned for her to move in. So it's perfectly legal for him to require the same when she leaves. That's how the present law works.

If it hadn't been, yes, OP would potentially be out of order. But she has to leave it as she found it (absent normal wear and tear).

Professional cleaning is pretty standard in most contracts. When we rented we had to provide receipt of the professional clean so if she isn’t able to then it’s ok to charge her.
It's not enforceable.
OP can't charge their tenant for a professional clean.