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Original poster

Deposit dispute. As landlord, am I being a dick?

163 replies

landlordQ · 19/06/2023 15:40

I have one rental flat. I keep it maintained to a high standard, respond to tenant requests immediately etc. I know some people don't believe in BTLs full stop and think all landlords are bastards but I would like some advice nonetheless.

My tenant has just left. Her contact stipulates the flat is returned having had a professional clean. It was cleaned professionally prior to her moving in. She has not done this, but she has made a fair effort to clean it.

I have a new tenant moving in and they have requested a professional clean, so I must provide it. There are a few stains on the carpets, the white goods haven't been cleaned and there are a few other missed bits.

Would it be unreasonable to dispute this cost with my previous tenant and try to reclaim the money for the cleaning from their deposit? It's in a deposit scheme and was managed by a letting agent so all above board. the LA thinks I can reclaim it because it's in their rental contract, but as she gave the cleaning a good go I feel bad to ask her to cover the full professional cleaning cost (£300).

OP posts:
Crikeyalmighty · 19/06/2023 16:00

Given that I was charged £480 by Savills for a professional clean after having molly maids in to clean it at similar cost- because it was empty for a month- I'm not having professional cleans anymore before I leave- certain agents absolutely take the piss

Depending 'how' clean it is OP and if she hasn't had external professionals in I would probably split the cost

Hotandverybotheredagain · 19/06/2023 16:00

Finlesswonder · 19/06/2023 15:55

A "professional" clean is about getting into all the places a normal person with normal equipment can't. Considering many (most?) people who live in a house they own don't get their houses professionally cleaned, I don't see why the burden is on the tenant

Agree!

greyhairnomore · 19/06/2023 16:00

Finlesswonder · 19/06/2023 15:42

I think what's dickish is having that in the contract

Completely normal.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Property Property legal advice
Chgl92 · 19/06/2023 16:01

Presumably their deposit is protected properly. You can put in a claim on their deposit and see if they dispute it.

BunnyBettChetwynnd · 19/06/2023 16:03

I've rented several times over the years and have never had this in a contract. I've had professional oven cleaning and carpet cleaning, but never a whole flat.

When I moved into my current rental the landlord said the place had been 'professionally cleaned', but it took me two days to clean it properly. How was the flat when she moved in? Are you sure it was better than how she left it?

Original poster
landlordQ · 19/06/2023 16:03

I'm already having to take her last month's unpaid rent out of the deposit which I'm assured will be accepted.

She did an ok clean and I don't want to take the piss. I didn't ask for a receipt from a cleaning company (quite normal round here) and wouldn't have known it wasn't done professionally had she done a good enough job.

I think I'll keep looking for the lowest quote then split it with her (subject to agreement of course)

OP posts:
Hugasauras · 19/06/2023 16:04

Perhaps it is normal in some places, but it's never been the case in anywhere I have rented (granted some time ago!) and it wasn't a stipulation when we were landlords, which we were up until April. All we asked was that the house was left clean, then we went in and fixed any wear and tear and paid for a clean before the next tenants. It just feels like a business cost, really 🤷‍♀️

Personally I wouldn't bother chasing for deposit money if it was left clean enough and in a reasonable state. I'd just let it go and use some of the money I've presumably earned from it to invest back in.

PumpkinPie77 · 19/06/2023 16:05

As a former renter, this has been in all of my rental contracts.

The one dispute I did have... I moved into a flat and the tenancy did state it would have to be professionally cleaned when I left. Fair enough.

Except the flat definitely wasn't professionally cleaned when I moved in... heavy dust on the blinds, corner of worktops a bit grubby, hair in the carpets, oven had signs of use, inside cupboards weee mostly clean but not spotless etc.

it wasn't dirty, just cleaned to a fairly good standard by a normal Person, but not professionally spotless.

So when I moved out many years later, I cleaned it myself top to bottom to a very good standard.

I told the agent I had left it in the same (probably better) condition than when I moved in

The LL tried to deduct a professional clean cost from my deposit but I fought this and won. Because despite it being in my contract, the law states that is only applicable if the LL could prove that a professional clean had been done before I moved in. The LL couldn't prove this (no receipt, as it wasn't done).

So basically the law states that the property has to be left in much the same condition as when the tenant moves in. So you can't ask a leaving tenant to pay for a professional clean, if it wasn't professionally cleaned before they moved in.

If you can prove it was professionally cleaned before you tenant moved in, then you stand a good chance of lawfully deducting the cost from their deposit.

YouCantBeSadHoldingACupcake · 19/06/2023 16:05

Your contract cannot override legislation. It's an unfair clause that cannot be enforced. However you can ask for the property to be returned to the same level of cleanliness that it was in when the tenant moved in. So probably would be able to claim for some of the cost for areas in the house that are not clean, but unlikely to get the full amount unless the entire house is filthy

BritishDesiGirl · 19/06/2023 16:05

@landlordQ do you have proof of it being professionally cleaned prior to the tenant moving in?

drpet49 · 19/06/2023 16:06

OhBanana · 19/06/2023 15:43

Long term renter here. Yes take it out of the deposit. She broke the contract. Even if not stated in a contract I would get a professional clean at the end of a tenancy. Someone has to go in and clean and her contract states she should have to pay for it. You would absolutely win a case with the dps if she contested it. Tough on her, she chanced it and it hasn’t paid off.

This. Why wouldn’t you have claimed it from the previous tenant in the first place?????

RedHelenB · 19/06/2023 16:06

Finlesswonder · 19/06/2023 15:42

I think what's dickish is having that in the contract

This.

AnotherpostAnotherQuestion · 19/06/2023 16:07

I think you should leave it and not have it in the contract

Crikeyalmighty · 19/06/2023 16:07

@landlordQ that's what I would do and as a tenant I would think that was fair- I've twice now had the scenario where posh agents have insisted it's done again even though it looked perfect to me and the professional cleaning company including full oven and all white goods!! Now that in my opinion wasn't fair but to be frank I needed most of my extraordinarily big deposits back ( several thousand each time)

mrssilky · 19/06/2023 16:08

hi i rented privately twice and the last time i wasn't expected to professionally clean the house, just clean it to a good standard including fridge, freezer, washer which they were happy with. i was asked to get a professional cleaner in to do the well-used oven but i couldn't be bothered so asked them to take it off my deposit and everyone was fine with that and it was reasonably charged. i knew what i was expected to do and the consequences of not doing that, so your tenant is no different i would say . just dispute the amount you need to get the job done ..... you're defo not being a dick.

Original poster
landlordQ · 19/06/2023 16:09

BritishDesiGirl · 19/06/2023 16:05

@landlordQ do you have proof of it being professionally cleaned prior to the tenant moving in?

Yes. I renovated it and had it professionally cleaned prior to her moving in.

OP posts:
kernowpicklepie · 19/06/2023 16:09

Definitely deduct it from her deposit.
I have often not had professional cleans done but would always clean to a standard that someone could move straight in.
We're moving out of our current rental next week and due to young children, I don't have the time to clean how I normally would so we've hired a company to do it for us. It's not cheap as we have a large house but it means the landlady can rent straight away if she chooses to and we should get our full deposit back.
I'd never have left a property with clearly stained carpets and the white goods not even cleaned.
The deposit is there for that purpose.
She could have hired a rug doctor if she was unable to afford a full end of tenancy clean.

Make sure you take pictures of how she left it so if she disputes through the deposit scheme then you have your proof

Seasonofthewitch83 · 19/06/2023 16:11

Why are you taking advice from random MN anyway?

Surely use something like Landlordzone.

Its been pointed out to you a few times that your contract does not override legislation around cleaning fees.

You will need proof that the stains in the carpet were not there before she moved in.

TBH I think you should just cough up the money as a valid business expense and pay to have the property cleaned to your standard.

meatbaseddessert · 19/06/2023 16:11

TonysGaff · 19/06/2023 15:57

Her contact stipulates the flat is returned having had a professional clean.

You are haven't been allowed to stipulate that tenants must pay a professional end of tenancy clean since 2019. You can only state that it must be returned with the same level of cleanliness, ie to a professional level if it was professionally cleaned when they moved and described as such in the inventory. If you insist on a professional clean, the tenant can reclaim the cost from you. You can also be fined.

You can't charge your tenant for a £300 professional clean just because the new tenant wants one. As part of the property has been cleaned to a professional standard, it would be betterment to charge the tenant to have the entire house professionally cleaned. It is saving you money to fulfil the new tenant's request.

However, you can charge your tenant for cleaning the items that were not cleaned to a professional standard. It would not cost £300 to clean the white goods and spot clean the stains though.

However, given that you have an illegal clause in your contract, you might want to let it go.

This is spot on. You can't just put anything you like in a tenancy agreement.

Original poster
landlordQ · 19/06/2023 16:11

@kernowpicklepie the agents have taken these photos, showing clearly the carpet needs cleaning and a few other bits, so i have that proof.

Thanks all.

OP posts:
TeenagersAngst · 19/06/2023 16:13

Good luck getting the deposit protection scheme to side with you. Majority of cases awarded in favour of tenant.

Original poster
landlordQ · 19/06/2023 16:13

@meatbaseddessert it's professionally managed. I'm following their advice.

If it was spotless before she moved in and now is sort of clean, that's not returning to same level/".

OP posts:
BunnyBettChetwynnd · 19/06/2023 16:13

When I moved in here I took photos of the standard of cleaning. I sent them to the agent then so they know how badly the so say professional clean was done. I'll clean again when I leave and if there's any quibble about cleaning costs I will show them the photos again.

Rainydaysandicecream · 19/06/2023 16:14

I'm a LL and don't have this in contracts. A good normal clean I'd expect, but I don't see why tenants should have to pay for a professional to come in at the end of their tenancy. It's the landlord's responsibility to have the property ready for the next tenant and some normal wear and tear is to be expected.
I agree with the first response - I think it's a dickish move to have this contracts personally. Just because lots of people do it doesn’t make it right. It's not done in my area so it's definitely not a universal expectation either.

PinkFrogss · 19/06/2023 16:16

Can you clearly evidence that it was professionally cleaned before the tenant moved in? Otherwise it might be suggested you’re asking for betterment, rather than accepting the property in the same standard (less any reasonable wear and tear) as when you originally let it.

They usually require something more than just photos E.g an invoice etc.

Tbh if new tenant wants it professionally cleaned and it’ll cost you £300, it’ll probably be worth it in the long run for you.