Mum sentenced to 28 months in prison for abortion pills

[mumoftwobarnyboys]

Used after the cut off point of 10 weeks.

Regardless of how far gone she was, surely this isn't right?

It is her body, despite me morally really thinking what she did was very wrong.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/12/woman-in-uk-jailed-for-28-months-over-taking-abortion-pills-after-legal-time-limit?CMP=twtgu&utmmsource=Twitter&utmmedium=&s=08#Echobox=1686577294

Why not? There are those who are saying the baby/clump of cells/non--person doesn't matter, so why does the matter in which they are dispatched need to be sanitised?

@CiderWithRosy I don't understand it either. I don't know if it's connected to a repugnance around birth, pregnancy, babies generally maybe.

You speak sense and I realise need to step away from thread as it's too upsetting to know so many have such disparaging views on the child we lost and sees them as a non person as they never drew breath.

I’m sorry you lost a baby and although this thread has upset you, please be reassured that to the huge majority of us, your baby is just as real and matters just as much as any baby that is born alive and well x

I still think it's abhorrent that she was given a jail sentence. I'm sorry that it offends those who have had babies earlier than full term, but it still doesn't negate the fact that I think a woman has a right to choose & should always have that right, no matter how many weeks pregnant. As early as possible, as late as necessary.

Just how late?
32 weeks?
35 weeks?
38 weeks?
41 weeks?

Not in the judges eyes (Thank God). The mother lied and now she has to face the consequences.

@Itisyourturntowashthebath I really don't think her actions were necessary.

I don't think her actions were necessary either.

There do seem to be some on this thread arguing that until the first breath TOP should be allowed. They are missing the point, that at late stages of pregnancy TOP is called giving birth.

You mention she has the right, regardless of how many weeks she is….

But about what her reason is?

Or does she have the right to abort the baby no matter what the reason is?

For example, you would think it reasonable for a woman to abort a baby at 39 weeks gestation because she had decided that she didn’t know how she’d cope and so didn’t want to have the baby anymore?

Are you willing to deliver whatever kills a viable baby?

So sorry, I meant to @Gothambutnotahamster !

All these posters with the 'late as mother wants for whatever' the bloody arrogance of them. You do realise that it's an HCP that'll have to kill the baby? But hey, as long as the 'mother' gets what she wants...

…..or what about if a woman is in labour and the midwife lets it slip that the baby is a boy (based on previous imaging for example) and the woman had been adamant that she was having a daughter. What if the woman announced that she doesn’t want a son and so asks for the baby to be aborted so it isn’t alive when she gives birth.

Is that ok?

There has to be a cut off for what ‘reasons’ are ok and which aren’t and it makes sense that the reasons of poor prognosis in the infant (as in congenital disease) or a risk to the mother are the only reasons that should be acceptable past a certain point.

Well according to posters on this forum @MyTruthIsOut that's cool as he's unwanted, kill away.
Oh I really do need to step away thank you for your earlier post, I recognise I'm too emotionally close to this subject.

@MichelleScarn I am so sorry for the loss of your baby and I hope you feel better soon. Some people have extreme views, but I think they are a minority.

I truly believe that as early as possible and as late as necessary is how it should be.

I don't think that women all of a sudden decide to terminate because they 'don't fancy having a boy' & there will be other legitimate reasons for late term abortions. It is sad & not something I could do myself, but I would never look to restrict another woman's right to choose. No matter how far along they are. Until the baby is out and breathing, it's the woman's body and she should have full bodily autonomy.

@Gothambutnotahamster but are YOU willing to kill this child, or do you expect HCPs to be forced to work to your moral code?

I can imagine, if sex selective abortions were legal, plenty of women could be coerced or even make that choice themselves.

@Gothambutnotahamster at 39 weeks it isn't necessary to kill a healthy baby before giving birth to it.
Can you imagine they law suits that would follow? "Doctors killed my baby because I had undiagnosed psychosis."

Everyone of these arguments that could result in a baby being clubbed to death on the birth bed (extreme, but you are the one using birthed and breathing), makes a good argument for not allowing women bodily autonomy.

I’m glad the law doesn’t agree. Some of the views on this thread are really very extreme and very upsetting. They also don’t seem to so far take any account or make any consideration for the HCP or to how the procedures actually happen, or that once you’ve got to x number of weeks you need to give birth in any case but no consideration given to why that couldn’t be to a live baby instead of a dead one. It’s a clear and unrelenting view that the mother matters more than anything and screw everyone else. Depressing really. I can run with that argument before 24 weeks but not after and certainly not at the late stages being discussed here.

What about when the lateness is NOT necessary like this case?

I thought as late as necessary was supposed to be for people with medical reasons, that are actually necessary because they had no other choice (diagnostically, 20 week scan etc)?

I think the “late as necessary” argument being run here is about what’s necessary to give the woman what she wants, not specific medical problems. Which is what’s so abborant to many

I still think the woman should always have the right to choose. I take the point re HCPs and their feeling about a 39-week foetus and I've no answer to that, but I don't believe a woman should ever be jailed for aborting a foetus no matter how many weeks along.

@MichelleScarn I'm sorry for your loss. I agree that there's some very extreme views on here, not shared by myself or anyone I know.

Personally I think it was right she was jailed, she'll only serve 14 months according to the court documents. She broke the law at the end of the day.

I was offered a TFMR, obviously this could be done after 24 weeks but the HCPs were keen for me to decide before 24 weeks. I'm not sure you'd find many willing to terminate a healthy baby at 39 weeks due to maternal choice.