Mum sentenced to 28 months in prison for abortion pills

[mumoftwobarnyboys]

Used after the cut off point of 10 weeks.

Regardless of how far gone she was, surely this isn't right?

It is her body, despite me morally really thinking what she did was very wrong.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/12/woman-in-uk-jailed-for-28-months-over-taking-abortion-pills-after-legal-time-limit?CMP=twtgu&utmmsource=Twitter&utmmedium=&s=08#Echobox=1686577294

That's very interesting that you state many abortion services staff would not want to perform late stage abortions.

Seeing the programme years ago of trainee doctors watching a late termination and their clearly wincing, horrified faces turning away has stayed with me.

Women have plenty of time to make their minds up as it stands- the current time frames ARE generous in my opinion.

I’m sorry for the morbid question, but at what point does suctioning of the womb no longer become viable with regards to abortions, and instead the induction of the labour (after the intra-uterine killing of the foetus) is the only option?

Suction TOP (STOP) are only done routinely between 9-12 weeks gestation.
Before and after that Medical TOP (MTOP) are preferred.

IME, MTOPs are the preferred method overall at most gestations up till 23+6 gestation - its far safer with less risk of complications.

*Should clarify, that MTOPs can be done and are the preferred method from as early as an intra-uterine pregnancy can be confirmed (so about 5 weeks) till 23+6 weeks.

STOPs are pretty rare nowadays IME.

Thank you for that explanation.

Many, many years ago my sister had a termination at 22 weeks (she was young-ish) and had hidden it from everyone. She took a complete “head in the sand” approach to it because she was so scared. Our dad took her for the procedure and I have never asked her what happened for fear of upsetting her, but now I know she would have had to give birth to the baby it makes me feel really sad to know she went through that.

I’m assuming the babies don’t look nice either if they’d already been dead for some time before being born 😢

It must be so traumatic for people who have late-term abortions (of a much wanted baby) for medical reasons.

Agree. If this is what pro choice means, then prepare to see more people turn away.

And with MTOP at what gestation does a women need to be in medical environment for it to be done as opposed to the woman being allowed to miscarry at home after she’s taken the tablets?

In my trust its definitely from 11+6, and in practice, usually from 10+1.

So do they have to return to the clinic for the second tablet and then just stay there until the miscarriage has happened?

Sorry for all the questions…this thread has made me realise how little I know about the complexities surrounding abortions in terms of what can be done and when and what the processes are.

I had a termination about 20 years ago when I was 10 weeks pregnant and it was done under general anaesthetic, but I suppose back then there weren’t many other options available?

Do they do do the dismemberment way (I can't remember what it is called)? If so, do they euthanise first?

if were going to discuss dismemberment can we add a trigger warning please?

I had one at 20 weeks, he just looked like a very small baby but the skin is quite transparent so he was quite dark looking and skinny.

He actually looked very much like one of his brothers facially who was born at 32 weeks

What do you think they do ffs? It can happen with suction apparently but they don't do stops late or much at all now like a pp said

Sure, but its a mainstream method (or used to be I believe) along with the pills,.vacuum or the feticide injection.

Yes it's a physically unpleasant sounding idea, but if people are talking about full term abortions and how they might be performed, are we only allowed to ask about the more palatable methods?

This, also those who think it's OK to kill a baby as its not yet taken a breath, if a baby was (unusual I know) being born breech, would it be OK to kill it while legs and torso were out of the mothers body, but she hadn't yet pushed out the head?

I had two friends who had miscarries at 20 and 21 weeks. They both had to go into labour and give birth to their babies, no suction

I don’t think it’s ok and this wasn’t a thread to discuss abortion methods.

Why has this thread turned from discussing a specific case to discussing abortion in general? The legality of abortion in general is settled and in depth discussion of a abortion method only acts to deter vulnerable women from seeking abortions or shaming then at possibly the lowest part of their lives

I think this is why this rare case should both act as a spring board for pro life advocates to reopen abortion rights in general including gestation thresholds

@mids2019 because some women on this thread seem to think that you can decide to have a late abortion and just wish a 4lb baby into non-existence.

If anyone wants to discuss late term abortion, the nitty gritty has to be mentioned. Especially those arguing the option needs to exist until the foetus takes a first breath and turns into a baby.

I think a jail sentence was too harsh, and especially 2 years, maybe they should have given her a suspended sentence and made her go to counselling, I don’t know why she took so long to decide whether to keep the baby or not. There was a man in Moredun who was found with child sexual abuse photographs & he got community service and a fine I think, this was maybe 4 years ago, if anyone should have gotten a sentence in prison then it was the vile man downloading csa photographs.

Just out of interest what sex was the judge that sentenced this woman?

This, also those who think it's OK to kill a baby as its not yet taken a breath, if a baby was (unusual I know) being born breech, would it be OK to kill it while legs and torso were out of the mothers body, but she hadn't yet pushed out the head?
I asked these exact questions before and none of the can-kill-them-until-full term brigade replied...

Years ago in earlier terminations before they started giving people tablets and they did it under general

Pills are now used in earlier tops

Vacuum is what people used to refer to as earlier tops under general suction/Vacuum

The injection they give is in later tops which the majority are due to medical reasons, it's a horrific enough situation to be in as it is, having to terminate for medical reasons. In some cases if its later on they'll inject the heart so the baby isn't born breathing only to die later .

And in cases like mine they don't always because the baby is unlikely to survive the birth at 20 weeks which is what I was

It's OK to go on about only being able to talk about more pallitable methods but if you want to talk about unpalatable ones at least try to be accurate. They'll be people reading this that have gone through it, are going through it and unfortunately will go through it in the future do you want to case more anxiety in women who may have to make these choices in the future ?

The judge will have the full picture wheather that was a male or female judge. OP has posted about this particular story.

I think 2 years is the mother getting off lightly she needed to be reprimanded for her actions. Perhaps the judge gave the sentenced because the mother made an informed choice, she also is a mother to 3 other DC you can't honestly expect this woman to walk free and just carry on her day to day life surely? Her actions were calculated and unless she has serious mental health issues it's alarming there's no passing the blame.

I feel deeply unsettled, reading through this thread, at the amount of people who claim to think it would be totally reasonable and acceptable to terminate a viable and healthy pregnancy right up until term. Surely some of these people are trolls? I mean, they wouldn't go round touting this shit in real life? Would they? I don't think I know of anyone who would actually think this? It's just so vile and repugnant.