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Original poster

Mum sentenced to 28 months in prison for abortion pills

867 replies

mumoftwobarnyboys · 12/06/2023 17:26

Used after the cut off point of 10 weeks.

Regardless of how far gone she was, surely this isn't right?

It is her body, despite me morally really thinking what she did was very wrong.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/12/woman-in-uk-jailed-for-28-months-over-taking-abortion-pills-after-legal-time-limit?CMP=twtgu&utmmsource=Twitter&utmmedium=&s=08#Echobox=1686577294

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Topictwenty · 13/06/2023 19:14

I must admit, the document with the judge’s statement makes me view it less favourably than I was. I was doing a lot of giving her benefit of the doubt but having read that it does seem quite calculated, although no doubt stressful. And of course, giving birth at 33 weeks is not much different to going full term and adopting. Adopting as an alternative to abortion normally carries no weight with me but when you’re giving birth at almost full term, I can’t see why an adoption is any worse than taking drugs that may or may not kill the baby and then giving birth anyway

Bluebells1970 · 13/06/2023 19:28

Can't imagine how distressing that call was to the paramedics who attended, and tried to resuscitate the baby for some considerable time.

caringcarer · 13/06/2023 19:37

@Singlespies, the fact remains she could have phoned and asked for help, months before lockdown. She knew she was pregnant in December, but she didn't bother. Lockdown only started in the third week of March.

Bananananananananana · 13/06/2023 19:42

CBAironing · 13/06/2023 19:07

@MichelleScarn Pro choice is abortion freely available. Whether you’re 3 weeks or 33 weeks, if you no longer want to be pregnant and don’t want to have the baby, you should be able to terminate. If you ‘can’t be arsed’ to parent (and let’s be honest there’s usually more to it than this!) or have realised your partner is abusive, or have just been made homeless, I could go on and on…pro choice is pro choice. The majority of people who terminate at late stage will be absolutely desperate.

At 30 something weeks you believe women should be allowed to terminate for any reason?

Why does the baby have to be born dead for a woman to not be pregnant?

I find it unfathomable that anyone can support unrestricted right to abortion, how do people detach so much to justify that, really?

So, it's fine to kill a full term fetus if you break up with your partner as an example, or you simply don't feel ready to parent. Why does it need to die though? Why not just allow babies to be born earlier (where possible)?

CBAironing · 13/06/2023 19:48

@Bananananananananana Yes. Because babies should be born wanted. Not destined for foster care or a resented existence.

twoandcooplease · 13/06/2023 19:49

Bluebells1970 · 13/06/2023 19:28

Can't imagine how distressing that call was to the paramedics who attended, and tried to resuscitate the baby for some considerable time.

Those were my thoughts on a previous post too. I felt it was unnecessary to put that on the ambulance staff. To not be honest and have them turn up and try to resuscitate a stillborn for 45 minutes and she still proceeded to lie and say she didn't know she was pregnant
Those medics will have that imprinted in their brains forever and that's totally unfair

Flowersun6 · 13/06/2023 19:50

RoseslnTheHospital · 12/06/2023 18:00

This should be an issue of mental and physical health for the woman concerned, and her family, not a public criminal case. It doesn't serve any purpose to prosecute or imprison her. It won't act as a deterrent to anyone who is desperate enough to be considering this in future, it will just make them even more unwilling to engage with healthcare services.

Abortion in general should not be in the criminal framework in this day and age.

You can't just make your own terms up of what mental health is. Even people with mental health have capacity unless deemed otherwise!

Bananananananananana · 13/06/2023 19:51

CBAironing · 13/06/2023 19:48

@Bananananananananana Yes. Because babies should be born wanted. Not destined for foster care or a resented existence.

You think a newborn baby was unwanted? By its other family members? Adopters waiting for a child? This is really poor as an excuse.

By that logic, it's ok to kill an unwanted newborn cos well they were unwanted by the birth mother so ya know who cares

CBAironing · 13/06/2023 19:53

It isn’t about the other family members. It’s about the woman who is carrying that baby. We don’t need more children in the care system. We have enough.

hattyhathat · 13/06/2023 19:55

Topictwenty · 13/06/2023 19:14

I must admit, the document with the judge’s statement makes me view it less favourably than I was. I was doing a lot of giving her benefit of the doubt but having read that it does seem quite calculated, although no doubt stressful. And of course, giving birth at 33 weeks is not much different to going full term and adopting. Adopting as an alternative to abortion normally carries no weight with me but when you’re giving birth at almost full term, I can’t see why an adoption is any worse than taking drugs that may or may not kill the baby and then giving birth anyway

Yes it's a real eyeopener

MadeForThis · 13/06/2023 19:56

At 34 weeks she could have held on another few weeks and delivered a live baby. She didn't have to keep it.

Posters talking about body autonomy- she had to give birth to a 34 week baby wether it was alive or dead.

She knew she was pregnant in December. She was 24 weeks pregnant when lockdown started. Lockdown is not an explanation.

I believe in a woman's right to choose. But not up to the point when the choice kills a 34 week baby.

Betsybetty · 13/06/2023 20:14

CBAironing · Today 19:53
It isn’t about the other family members. It’s about the woman who is carrying that baby. We don’t need more children in the care system. We have enough.

This is a barbaric point of view. You sound like you are from Spartan times when they were throwing babies from the cliff.

The baby is a person CBA. Not a pest. It is not the mother’s puppet to do what she wants with. Disgusted absolutely.

Bananananananananana · 13/06/2023 20:25

CBAironing · 13/06/2023 19:53

It isn’t about the other family members. It’s about the woman who is carrying that baby. We don’t need more children in the care system. We have enough.

No. That's not a reason to commit acts like this. Same could be said for child murder.

Oh well, there's too many children in the case system, they'd suffer anyway and they'd be unwanted.

There's no reason for it. Look, even for those 'as late as necessary' people, I can't grasp how this can be justified. It wasn't necessary in any capacity

Foxesandsquirrels · 13/06/2023 20:26

CBAironing · 13/06/2023 19:53

It isn’t about the other family members. It’s about the woman who is carrying that baby. We don’t need more children in the care system. We have enough.

Wow. I'm genuinely speechless.

CBAironing · 13/06/2023 20:28

@Foxesandsquirrels Reading your previous comments I’m not surprised.

CiderWithRosy · 13/06/2023 20:32

CBAironing · 13/06/2023 19:53

It isn’t about the other family members. It’s about the woman who is carrying that baby. We don’t need more children in the care system. We have enough.

This comment is disgusting.

Foxesandsquirrels · 13/06/2023 20:33

CBAironing · 13/06/2023 20:28

@Foxesandsquirrels Reading your previous comments I’m not surprised.

Really? I'm surprised you're surprised. Not sure this is the way to reduce the number of kids in the care system but I guess it's a method.

CBAironing · 13/06/2023 20:39

@Foxesandsquirrels It wasn’t. It was a response to banana’s comment about there being adopters who would take unwanted newborns.

Bananananananananana · 13/06/2023 20:43

CBAironing · 13/06/2023 20:39

@Foxesandsquirrels It wasn’t. It was a response to banana’s comment about there being adopters who would take unwanted newborns.

Of course there are adopters, long term foster caters and other family members willing to take a newborn

The decision didn't have anything to do with considering future quality of life

Foxesandsquirrels · 13/06/2023 20:56

Bananananananananana · 13/06/2023 20:43

Of course there are adopters, long term foster caters and other family members willing to take a newborn

The decision didn't have anything to do with considering future quality of life

Show quote history

Tbh I wouldn't wish foster care on my worst enemy, but I agree with you that this wasn't a decision this woman made based on the quality of life this child may or may not have had. If that was a deciding factor, she wouldn't have taken tablets that had a huge chance of not working, rather making her child very disabled.

AgathaSpencerGregson · 13/06/2023 21:21

CBAironing · 13/06/2023 19:53

It isn’t about the other family members. It’s about the woman who is carrying that baby. We don’t need more children in the care system. We have enough.

This is, at best, an extremely unfortunate choice of words. At worst, it’s utterly repellent. Pause, please, and reflect that your words here can be read by literally anybody, including one of those children whom you think we have too many of!

thewillowbunnies · 13/06/2023 21:26

The point at which you're deliberately looking to for ways to kill a perfectly healthy baby inside of you that's perfectly viable (and you will need to give birth to either way) is the point at which it's completely wrong.

She murdered that baby.

What's utterly shit is how crap the sentence is.

As late as necessary is bullshit in this particular circumstance and I don't feel any sympathy at all except for the poor baby.

It's not supposed to serve as a deterrent to anyone else. It's supposed to deal with the grim deliberate crime she committed.

CBAironing · 13/06/2023 21:43

@AgathaSpencerGregson You’ve clearly read something else entirely. Whether or not you agree, different opinions exist.

IJustHadToLookHavingReadTheBook · 13/06/2023 21:46

Singlespies · 13/06/2023 17:31

A custodial sentence is ridiculous. Men get less for rape and sexual assault. Abortion should be legal up to birth so that women feel safe looking for help and advice. Very few women would choose a late term abortion (it is traumatic). Abortion should be between a woman and her doctors and the law should have nothing to do with it. And, actually, can a woman be forced to carry a foetus until birth? Pregnancy and birth are dangerous for women. Again, the law should have nothing to do with these personal and very difficult decisions.

This.

IJustHadToLookHavingReadTheBook · 13/06/2023 22:00

Whiskeypowers · 13/06/2023 17:37

@AgathaSpencerGregson

“I remain suspicious that they are making this noise to distract from their role in promoting pills by post.”

I can’t help but think this too. I am agog that this has been possible. Any amount of margins for error and catastrophic outcomes. So so stupid. At the very least it should be absolutely essential to clinically conclude exactly how pregnant a woman is: clearly under seven weeks and over 24 weeks are generally immediately physically obvious.

Yeah but really, what was the option during those initial weeks of covid? Everything shut down up to and including cancer services. The other option was to leave women to have to remain pregnant when they didn't want to be.

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