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Ukraine Invasion: Part 41

998 replies

MagicFox · 06/06/2023 13:13

Welcome to thread 41 with new guidance thrashed out with regular posters to keep us on track :-) Hope you all approve!

  1. The agreed purpose of the thread is for the sharing of information and commentary on current events
  1. If you post a link please tell us where it leads/give a precis of the content
  1. Discussion and debate is welcome, but please keep it respectful
OP posts:
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161
ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 09/06/2023 10:04

Live: Ukraine Telegram

Defense Minister Oleksiy Reznikov said that Ukraine has prospects for creating missiles with a range of over a thousand kilometers. Money is already being allocated for this. Ukrainian manufacturers will implement the program.

Russia has filed charges against Ukraine with the International Criminal Court and the International Court of Justice for allegedly destroying the Kakhovka hydroelectric power plant with "massive artillery shelling."
On June 6, Ukraine also appealed to the ICC over the Russians' destruction of the Kakhovka hydroelectric power plant - Prosecutor General Kostin informed Prosecutor Karim Khan about the Russians' undermining of the dam.

One of the victims of the Russian shelling of Kherson was a 93-year-old resident of Ostriv(Kherson district), who was evacuated by boat by volunteers.

Surplus2requirements · 09/06/2023 10:30

From Sky news

Ukraine claims intercepted phone call proves Russia blew up damUkraine claims it has intercepted a phone call that proves Russia is responsible for destroying the Kakhovka dam in Kherson.
The Security Service of Ukraine posted a one-and-a-half minute audio clip of the alleged conversation on its Telegram channel.
In it they claim a Russian military official admits their sabotage group was behind the disaster.
"They [the Ukrainian side] didn't screw up there. Our sabotage group is there. They wanted to scare the guy with this dam. It didn't go according to plan, but more than planned," it says.
Moscow claims Ukraine shelled the dam from above on Tuesday, while Kyiv says Russia blew it up from within.
Drone footage released yesterday showed no evidence of shelling from above.

Sounds like it could be a case of "You were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off"

DrBlackbird · 09/06/2023 11:33

Russia has filed charges against Ukraine with the International Criminal Court and the International Court of Justice for allegedly destroying the Kakhovka hydroelectric power plant with "massive artillery shelling."

No one does DARVO better than Putin/Moscow. Absolutely no one.

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 09/06/2023 11:57

Why Russia blew the dam:

twitter.com/cmusso6/status/1666762173417136129?s=46&t=eNB9C4pL0g2Opkl4oCmOsQ

BringBackCoffeeCreams · 09/06/2023 13:35

DrBlackbird · 09/06/2023 11:33

Russia has filed charges against Ukraine with the International Criminal Court and the International Court of Justice for allegedly destroying the Kakhovka hydroelectric power plant with "massive artillery shelling."

No one does DARVO better than Putin/Moscow. Absolutely no one.

They were also at the UN calling for a full investigation of the 'actions of the terrorist Kyiv regime' because we can't allow them to repeat what they did in Bucha. (Newsnight around 3.40)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001mqq3/newsnight-the-ukraine-spring-offensive?page=1

How the people there manage to remain dignified I'll never know. I'd have been across the room and twatting the bastard as the lies dripped from his tongue.

Newsnight - The Ukraine Spring Offensive

As floodwaters rise in Ukraine, the blame game goes on. With Mark Urban.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001mqq3/newsnight-the-ukraine-spring-offensive?page=1

blueshoes · 09/06/2023 13:59

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 09/06/2023 11:57

Desdemona, thanks for the link. That makes perfect sense. Of course it is Russia that did it. So long as their lips move ...

It is frustrating that this massive sabotage is difficult to prove who did it and depressing that Russia can cast enough doubt to get away with it.

The international community still very quiet on the dam explosions. Heartened to read reports of humanitarian aid from various countries being organised. Wonder what UK is doing.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 09/06/2023 14:15

I am just gutted at the silence of the international community. I would love to think they were just getting their ducks in a row but I don’t believe they are suddenly start speaking out. Hope to be proved wrong.
I don’t know what the point of the UN is supposed to be any more.

katem98 · 09/06/2023 14:37

"NATO countries will not introduce troops into the territory of Ukraine until the end of the war, — the head of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs Dmytro Kuleba."

Does anyone else feel that statements like this give Russia more reason to drag it out and stay there as long as possible?🙄

MissConductUS · 09/06/2023 14:42

katem98 · 09/06/2023 14:37

"NATO countries will not introduce troops into the territory of Ukraine until the end of the war, — the head of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs Dmytro Kuleba."

Does anyone else feel that statements like this give Russia more reason to drag it out and stay there as long as possible?🙄

I think they don't want to let Putin shift blame for the disastrous war by lending any credence to the idea that it's a way against Nato.

katem98 · 09/06/2023 14:43

@MissConductUS Good point!

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 09/06/2023 14:46

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 09/06/2023 14:15

I am just gutted at the silence of the international community. I would love to think they were just getting their ducks in a row but I don’t believe they are suddenly start speaking out. Hope to be proved wrong.
I don’t know what the point of the UN is supposed to be any more.

I really believed the international community would do something. I did.

notimagain · 09/06/2023 14:48

I think they don't want to let Putin shift blame for the disastrous war by lending any credence to the idea that it's a way against Nato.

Agreed, plus I'm interested in what some people mean exactly by "something" when they say "UN/NATO/The west must do something"..

Igotjelly · 09/06/2023 14:51

Sky News reporting that Russian tactical nuclear weapons to be in Belarus by 7/8th of July.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 09/06/2023 15:09

Actually I think that NATO should go in.

There are pros and cons, but that's my view now.

@Igotjelly I can't take nuclear weapons in Belorus seriously. Unless I'm missing something, it's a very slightly shorter distance for them to fly. I can't see that it's about anything other than Putin waving his little willy a tiny bit more frenetically.

prettybird · 09/06/2023 15:13

Brain bleach required at that image! Envy <= not envy

Igotjelly · 09/06/2023 15:34

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 09/06/2023 15:09

Actually I think that NATO should go in.

There are pros and cons, but that's my view now.

@Igotjelly I can't take nuclear weapons in Belorus seriously. Unless I'm missing something, it's a very slightly shorter distance for them to fly. I can't see that it's about anything other than Putin waving his little willy a tiny bit more frenetically.

No I agree with you.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 09/06/2023 15:35

prettybird · 09/06/2023 15:13

Brain bleach required at that image! Envy <= not envy

Yes ... Im sorry. I thought after I pressed send that it was too much!

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 09/06/2023 15:44

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 09/06/2023 15:09

Actually I think that NATO should go in.

There are pros and cons, but that's my view now.

@Igotjelly I can't take nuclear weapons in Belorus seriously. Unless I'm missing something, it's a very slightly shorter distance for them to fly. I can't see that it's about anything other than Putin waving his little willy a tiny bit more frenetically.

I am considerably more worried about Putin using nukes now he appears to have got away with the dam.
I wasn’t really before because it seemed like it would bring the wrath of NATO down on him.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 09/06/2023 15:56

I think China have had strong words about this and I think they will hold him back.

I think.

katem98 · 09/06/2023 16:38

Sky News... is this something that happens quite regularly?

"RAF Typhoons have been scrambled to intercept Russia aircraft flying close to NATO airspace twice in 24 hours, the Ministry of Defence has said.
This morning, Typhoons flew to intercept an aircraft flying toward the Gulf of Finland and the Baltic Sea.
Last night, RAF planes based in Estonia were joined by the Swedish airforce to intercept an aircraft close to NATO and Swedish airspace."

Igotjelly · 09/06/2023 16:39

katem98 · 09/06/2023 16:38

Sky News... is this something that happens quite regularly?

"RAF Typhoons have been scrambled to intercept Russia aircraft flying close to NATO airspace twice in 24 hours, the Ministry of Defence has said.
This morning, Typhoons flew to intercept an aircraft flying toward the Gulf of Finland and the Baltic Sea.
Last night, RAF planes based in Estonia were joined by the Swedish airforce to intercept an aircraft close to NATO and Swedish airspace."

Yes very common. They regularly fly close to Scottish airspace for instance.

katem98 · 09/06/2023 16:41

@Igotjelly Thanks! I wonder why the feel the need to report if it's not something overly out of the ordinary?

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 09/06/2023 16:45

https://www.csis.org/analysis/ukraines-offensive-operations-shifting-offense-defense-balance

This article sums the military situation up excellently. Free to read.

first and last paragraphs, but the middle's where the meat is ofc.

The IssueRussian fortifications in Ukraine are the most extensive defensive works in Europe since World War II, according to new CSIS analysis. The Russian military has constructed trenches, minefields, dragon’s teeth, and other barriers to slow Ukrainian forces during offensive operations. But as a review of previous wars shows, fortifications and other measures do not guarantee that the defender has the advantage. The Ukrainian military could effectively use a combination of strategy, technology, geography, and other factors to retake territory illegally seized by Russia.

Next Steps

The next phase of the war will hinge, in part, on the ability of Ukrainian forces to retake territory by moving from attrition to maneuver warfare and to shift the offense-defense balance in favor of the offense. As Napoleon wrote, “The strength of an army, like power in mechanics, is estimated by multiplying the mass by the velocity.”[52] A Ukrainian maneuver strategy places a premium on the second factor—velocity. Russian forces have attempted to shift the advantage to the defense and retain the territory they have conquered in Ukraine by constructing a formidable system of fortifications. But Russia faces several challenges in holding this territory, including weak ground forces that have not performed well on the battlefield, the need to defend a massive amount of territory, and variable construction of the fortifications.
This war is far from over. Western aid—including weapons systems, technology, training, intelligence, and financial support—will be critical over the long run to help Ukraine retake its territory and prevent Russia from invading again in the foreseeable future. The future trajectory of the war will also depend on whether Ukraine can exploit Russian vulnerabilities and effectively integrate technology, a clever strategy, force employment, nationalism, and other factors to turn the tide.

Ukraine’s Offensive Operations: Shifting the Offense-Defense Balance

A new CSIS analysis concludes that Russian fortifications in Ukraine are the most extensive defensive works in Europe since World War II, but the Ukrainian military could effectively combine strategy, technology, and geography to retake territory seize...

https://www.csis.org/analysis/ukraines-offensive-operations-shifting-offense-defense-balance

Igotjelly · 09/06/2023 16:46

katem98 · 09/06/2023 16:41

@Igotjelly Thanks! I wonder why the feel the need to report if it's not something overly out of the ordinary?

I think it’s probably just fear mongering given Russia and Ukraine has been back in the headlines this week and given the big NATO exercises about to start.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 09/06/2023 16:50

These reports come up regularly but they're not usually high up the agenda, because it happens so often.