The NHS is collapsing - what can we do?

[FedUpWithTheNHS]

First of all, I am not interested to do more bashing on GPs, NHS, nurses and whatnot. I sincerely do not think the issue is with them. So let's leave it at that.

But I have been trying to get some support for myself and struggle to get anywhere.
I have family members who have been waiting months, turning into years for severe issues and they are left in pain and scared.
I read threads on here (the one on sepsis, cancer scare etc...) and it's more of the same.

The system is collapsing but there isn't a private sector to pick up the pieces. I had to wait 4 mnths to see a cardiologist privately.... And now another 6 weeks to be able to have the prescription from my GP (At more than £100 per month, I just can't afford to get said prescription privately).
It very much feels like we are left to die, from no healthcare, tbh.

So far, I have written to my MP.
I am supporting groups working against the 'privatisation of the NHS'.
I'd vote Labour but tbh, just now, I can't say theyve filled me with confidence they will actually do what is needed. Which is increasing funding and ensuring doctors and nurses are staying in the UK and the NHS (at the very least)

What else can I, we, do?
I feel like we need to start shouting. LOUD. Very loud. But I am at loss as to what else I can do :((

My son is still waiting for an ultrasound on a lump that he first went to the GP with over 18 months ago. The delay has been entirely with the GP surgery who initially forget to send the referral, then didn't complete the referral properly so it was sent back, but they ignored it and it took my son to chase them up after a few months before they sent the referral again, by which time the blood test results were out of date, so it was rejected again and sent back to the GP, and they ignored it again, so it took son to chase them up yet again before they told him why it had been rejected and said he needed another blood test. It was finally re-submitted about 6 weeks ago, and he get the appointment letter from the x-ray/scan unit within a couple of weeks and is finally having it done next week. So, in his case, the delay is entirely due to the GP surgery, not waiting lists etc.

NO! you are wrong!
NHS can work and has worked - I agree it has faced unprecedented issues with Covid, and is clearly now crumbling.
WE need to decide as a nation what it means to us though - and actually how much we want it. This will reflect how we vote and how much tax we are willing to put into it.
For it to fail and move to a semi privatised model would be a terrible terrible shame, and the UK would never be the same again.
the NHS is an incredible incredible thing if funded correctly!

Agree with this. We are sleepwalking into real staff shortages in all nhs sectors (but particularly GPs) in a few years time because we need to train so many more than we do.
The current NHS staff are on their knees post covid and retiring early in their droves.

Can't even go private as the doctors simply aren't there!

My DF, now 89, led a physically active life, never smoked, rarely drank and had a very healthy diet.

Unfortunately, he showed the first signs of dementia 9 years ago, was diagnosed with Alzheimers 6 years ago, and after spending most of last year in hospital because he can no longer weight bear, ie, stand up, he is in a nursing home. A long life isn't always a good thing, sadly, nor does healthy living mean you won't need healthcare.

There isn't a simple fix a multi pronged approach is definitely required and would take years.

A big part is recruitment and retention. We never have enough doctors to fulfill the rota completely, despite having the funding. This means the ones we do have are overworked and demoralised, this is all levels from FY1 to consultant.

We have an aging population without the care sector to support it, meaning the burden falls on the NHS. This needs to be sorted as a priority to improve flow and stop bed blocking.

People need to take more responsibility for their own health but I totally appreciate it's not always easy. I'm knackered and have just got in and eaten 2 hotdogs for dinner.

Some hard decisions need to be made about what can be fully funded and what might require patient contribution or not be funded at all.

Management culture needs to change and poor performance needs to stop being accepted. Some of the older staff are stuck in the past and find it hard to deal with the fact that most NHS jobs are bloody tough these days, not the cushy number some of them used to be. This is slowly changing but structure and policies don't make it easy.

And yes, investment is needed. The mantra 'do more with less' is becoming totally unsustainable. But money needs to be spent wisely by people who know what they are doing.

That said, despite all of the above, my department is functioning. We all work our socks off but we are getting by and our cancer service is excellent

For comparison purposes I am in Ireland. Because my income exceeds the equivalent of the maximum State benefit amount I do not have free healthcare, but hospital admissions and treatment are free in a public hospital as are A+E visits provided I am referred there by a GP, otherwise if I just rock up I have to pay €100. There was a charge for hospital stays up to a few months ago. Prescription costs are capped at €80 per month, yes you read that correctly. If I ever get an illness that is on an approved list, I can get free everything including scripts. I pay €65 for a GP visit, and can get same day appointment. Under 6 and over 70s have free GP regardless of means.

I have private health insurance. It costs €1300 per annum and is just for me. It covers private inpatient treatment in private hospitals, co pay of 25% on consultant, GP and diagnostic out patient charges and the cost of staying in a private hospital. The co pay can be offset against my income tax together with any prescription charges.

My chosen hospitals all have an A+E department and deal with everything apart from strokes. My nearest one is ten minutes away. For the premium I pay, it is a great deal I think. I must be brought by car or make my own way to the private A+E, there is no ambulance service.

I can use the public system also for free, but the waiting lists are extraordinarily long especially for elective and orthopaedic procedures and similar. However, if I had an emergency I would more than likely be brought to the public hospital A+E if I needed an ambulance.

I have used both public and private systems. Both are fantastic once you are in the system, however the private system allows much quicker access and I am covered for a private room, which is essential for the benefit of others as I snore like a train!

How does that compare with UK NHS and private care? I'm curious.

Charge people who live abroad and come back for treatment, births and elderly people especially, and the NHS needs to get better at chasing charges from travel insurance ect.

Not talking about asylum seekers, trafficked people, just for clarity

Well, the BMA didn't help by voting to ban new medical schools and ban an increase in the number of training places!

https://www.bmj.com/content/337/bmj.a748

They wanted to avoid “overproduction of doctors with limited career opportunities.” I.e. to keep their priviledged position by creating a shortage of doctors!

Of course, there are also practical limitations in that trainee doctors need "places" to train and practice, which needs qualified doctors to train them, supervise them, review their progress, etc., so there has to be a balance between the number of doctors available to train (which reduces their time actually treating patients) and the number of trainees coming through the system.

Do you mean pensioners who have lived, worked and paid tax for an entirely lifetime in the UK and who now choose to live abroad but return to use the NHS?

We can admit that the NHS cannot be free at the point of use anymore and move to a model more like Australia/France or Germany for a start. Anyone who thinks Labour will transform things are delusional tbh

Sadly I agree with this.

I wonder if there are any Tory supporters on here who are happy with the way the NHS is for them at the moment?

@Atishoos in the uk

• it’s 5 weeks wait to see a GP unless you ring at 8.00am and you are lucky enough to get through and get a same day appointment. Or you could go and queue at the surgery. You’ll need to arrive before 7.30am though.
• A&E is all NHS. Very long wait. No ambulance at the moment so you are better making your win way there.
• consultant through NHS can be months or a year wait. You can go private. My cardiologist is £150 for a 15mins tel appointment. You can get private insurance but they are very expensive. We have one because it comes with DH job. First time we’ve ever used it. And it’s diagnostic only. No treatment with the one we have.
• you can get some routine surgery done privately. Obviously it’s costly etc… but more importantly, if it goes wrong, you end up in an NHS hospital anyway (happened to my dad)
• Lead time to see a consultant privately. I imagine it varies but again my cardiologist has a 3~4 months waiting list. 6 months of you are nit insured.
• i know there are some private gp who offer same day consultation. Seen adverts in London for them. But I have never used them.

Honestly, it's beyond the remit of one party to fix for me.

And I don't recall the so-called halcyon days of the NHS under Tony Blair either (for the services I used).

I don't believe it can support the size of population in its current form. Tinkering at the edges won't get it up to the required standard, it needs fundamental change. The consultants I know share a similar view.

@FedUpWithTheNHS Thanks for info. It is certainly not perfect in Ireland either, but the wait to see a GP or get an ambulance is definitely not like you describe.

Never vote Tory, and further, disown family or friends who do, and tell them exactly why. Shame on them.

Bliar is the Tory B-team. Same as starmer (son of a tool-maker and a nurse).

The soluble ones are only available on prescription

Honestly, it's beyond the remit of one party to fix for me.

In some ways, I agree with you.

But that’s also why I think it’s so important to have some grassroots movement in support of the NHS and a proper national healthcare system (whatever the shape of it. But NOT private).
Im just nit sure how to bet involved in those….

Starter is worse.

Regardless of how one votes, it’s hard to see where the so called labour policies are in the middle if Starmer proposals.

But that’s also why I think it’s so important to have some grassroots movement in support of the NHS and a proper national healthcare system (whatever the shape of it. But NOT private).

But why not semi-private as in France and Germany? From the other threads on MN, people say it's created a much higher standard of care for a fairly nominal fee.

https://www.boots.com/boots-paracetamol-500mg-effervescent-tablets-24-tablets-10293671?cm_mmc=bmm-buk-google-ppc--PLAs--Health_Pharmacy-_-UK_Smart_Shopping_Health_Pharmacy_Google&gclid=CjwKCAjw67ajBhAVEiwA2g_jELxJHEWpswQpQazzzdD1NashZtcchliTFk3xgtMSpi3KRhWeZdMhfBoC-QkQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Hth

If Labour have such a fantastic plan why haven't the implemented it in Wales ?

But why not semi-private as in France and Germany?

I think German employers pay just over 19% on top of salary into social security for their employees ? Would UK employers be happy with this ?