The NHS is collapsing - what can we do?

[FedUpWithTheNHS]

First of all, I am not interested to do more bashing on GPs, NHS, nurses and whatnot. I sincerely do not think the issue is with them. So let's leave it at that.

But I have been trying to get some support for myself and struggle to get anywhere.
I have family members who have been waiting months, turning into years for severe issues and they are left in pain and scared.
I read threads on here (the one on sepsis, cancer scare etc...) and it's more of the same.

The system is collapsing but there isn't a private sector to pick up the pieces. I had to wait 4 mnths to see a cardiologist privately.... And now another 6 weeks to be able to have the prescription from my GP (At more than £100 per month, I just can't afford to get said prescription privately).
It very much feels like we are left to die, from no healthcare, tbh.

So far, I have written to my MP.
I am supporting groups working against the 'privatisation of the NHS'.
I'd vote Labour but tbh, just now, I can't say theyve filled me with confidence they will actually do what is needed. Which is increasing funding and ensuring doctors and nurses are staying in the UK and the NHS (at the very least)

What else can I, we, do?
I feel like we need to start shouting. LOUD. Very loud. But I am at loss as to what else I can do :((

Well if they are stupid enough not do take care of their health then they will just have to pay more for insurance.

That had a PFI system though. I don’t think it’s on the cards and we’re still paying it off even now.

So how will they increase funding and who will pay more?

Furious as I am with the tories for the underfunding of the NHS and social care since 2010, not to mention the idiotic Lansley reforms, labour won't be able to inject the cash like they did in 1997.

And don't forget it was Labour who introduced foundation hospitals.

We are headed towards more creeping privatisation whichever colour of government we get.

No. The NHS is being run in part by the generosity and charity of these staff who you claim lack eptitude. It's just chronically underfunded. Many of the mythically flawless older generation left because they struggled with the workload and seeing the NHS being eroded.

In 1960 there were 10.7 hospital beds per 1000 people. Today we have about 2.3 per 1000, which is lower than many of our EU neighbours. In that same time period we have had massive advances in the treatment that can be provided, a vast increase in obesity and the population has grown massively.

Privatisation won't solve the situation, the US government still pays a significant amount towards healthcare. "The US government spends $10,921 per person on healthcare, which equates to £9,061 – three times as much as the UK despite having nearly five times as many people." From here https://www.bigissue.com/news/how-much-does-the-nhs-cost-the-uk/

It's terrible that it has come to this. The NHS needs to be better funded but it also needs to be prepared to look at itself and change how it works. Itis very wasteful, top heavy in terms of management, Senior Drs are given far too much leeway in how they behave, working hours on wards, what they do and don't do and in accountability. Staffing is an enormous issue and the money spent on 'bank/cover' nurses and Drs and other medical staff runs to millions over what permanent salaries would cost. There is a problem with GPs who get veryupset when this is said but it's true.

The public must also be more accountable for their use of services. Not turning up to appointments and not cancelling them is inexcuseable and should result in either a fine or going to the bottom of a waiting list.

Prescriptions should not be free from aged 60 onwards- it should be from state pension age.

Some products should not be prescribed - they can be bought at a chemist without prescription and that should be what happens.

Sickness absence from work is another big issue, especially for nurses- this needs unpicking and addressing.

Many supplementary services are very poor quality and not worth the money spent on them . For example:
Our GP has a 'counsellor'. She is appalling- gives you countless forms to fill in which she never looks at or uses in any way. She suggested I saw a Shamen who practises from the back room of a cafe in the village. She suggested I go for 'double tapping' at this cafe. I suffer from (diagnosed by a Consultant Psychiatrist) clinical depression and have across my whole adult life intermittently- a shamen and a nail technician who does 'double-tapping' on the side are not going to resolve that. My GP told me he was pleased I felt I had benefitted from the Counselling Service. I was astonished and told him it is dreadful, with examples. He showed me an evaluation I had completed (which I certainly did not complete) saying how good she was, how helpful I had found it and giving examples of the particular aspects I found most useful and their impact. He is investigating this and I am waiting to hear the outcome. He had no idea she was referring people to a cafe, for a shamen and tapping.
My aunt (5ft7 and 7st 10lbs) is 92. She has lost weight - over 2 stones- and had investigations about why. Turned out she has a big hiatus hernia which causes problems. The hospital sent a dietician to the house- I was there. She told her to drink a pint of full milk a day and eat lots of cream and cheese- all things that make the hiatus hernia worse. When I said that, she looked flustered and said she did not realise my aunt had a hiatus hernia. Turned out she had not read my aunt's notes.
BIL diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes- the quality of ~the diabetes nurse was laughable. She had a 'script' which she went through with him, over the phone because she is still not seeing patients in person, and could not answer his basic questions- eg 'If I do exercise like swim every morning for 1 hr, can I eat more carbs?'

Who would you charge? Everyone?
Children, those on benefits, pensioners (by far the biggest users and many of whom can very well afford), same as who get free prescriptions, or just the same poor sods in the middle yet again?

You can buy 90 at a time if you ask a pharmacist. There is no reason to have it prescribed.

I have swallow problems following cancer and have to have soluble paracetamol which is not available OTC

Opening clinics on weekends and bank holidays would help so that people having treatment can continue with it. And diagnosis will happen quicker.

i cannot complain about the cancer services except for the above. Once you are on the pathway it is very smooth and Ive heard that from different parts of the country. Also staff in specialist areas seem more content you can feel it as soon as you walk into the area.

The government needs to train more Drs- pay their fees and tie them into a 10 year contract with the NHS for doing so. Universities should be less picky about students on medicine courses and employ subject tutors to intensively tutor those who might need some academic support at times. Someone with an A and 2 B grades should be acceptable.

We also need to train Dr support practitioners- call them what you will. They are trained to degree level but do not deal with the most serious cases. Common childhood conditions, conditions of the elderly, respiratory viruses, sports/muscle injuries etc. They can also work in hospitals, particularly in A and E and Urgent Care clinics. They can be specialists in Pediatrics, Care for Elderly, Surgery.

But surely that could be sorted out between your GP and local pharmacy with a repeat order that a pharmacist keeps a check on the useage of. So GP informs pharmacy you require this. Pharmacy stocks it for you without a prescription. You are able to buy x number a month and no more.

What do YOU think we should do OP? You're pooh poohing a lot of good ideas on this thread, because they won't fix everything right this second.

So how would you fix the NHS?

I think we have four main options:

1. Leave things as they are.

2. Increase tax for large companies, corporations and the wealthy.

3. Increase tax for everyone who can just about afford it, on a sliding scale.

4. Introduce compulsory health insurance which would cost money to administer, (including chasing payments and enforcing compliance) plus any profit margin for the insurance companies.

No one should be under any misunderstanding about what a private healthcare system will mean. In the US a straightforward birth costs about $10,000 (just the birth not the pregnancy care). A visit to Urgent Care for a sore throat coast about $500- seen by a Dr, painkillers prescribed.

You pay for every individual tablet, plastic glove, plastic syringe, sticking plaster, timed nursing care, timed Dr care, every visit to a Dr, every blood test,scan, x-ray, specialist etc.

The whole aim of it is to make big money for insurers- who are often 'owners' of hospitals or linked to medical provisions companies too. It's corrupt.

Decent health insurance costs about $500 a month per person and there is an excess for every claim.

You would not stop paying NI if we had private healthcare- many things come out of NI- like state pensions, some benefits.

This

One of the first things you could do is simply get in touch with your local surgery and find out what it is they need and how you can help.

You can speak with unions such as the BMA or Doctors in Unite.

You can join campaigns such as https://keepournhspublic.com/ (Keep Our NHS Public)

It’s only going to get worse. Larger population, an unhealthy ageing population. I agree with those who say make every effort to stay healthy through good lifestyle choices.

It's Labour in Wales. It's no better here.

I think we should all pay more NI just for the NHS- all of us.

Or very hospital or GP visit should cost us a contribution £20.00 cash/card, on the spot. Missed uncancelled appointments - double. Everyone should pay that, everyone. But what it does is targets those who use the services most- which may be seen as unfair depending on your view.

What if someone doesn't have £20 but has broken their leg or burnt their hand?

You're amazingly ignorant about opposition policies, the role of the right wing media and the disenfranchisement of the electorate. I often listen to Starmer and Davey and I can assure you that they have some very good ideas about how to make the UK work again. But of course it all depends on how you access your news. The fact that you are more angry at people who have no power to change stuff, rather than the people who are 100% to blame for the shitshow we are currently living in tells me everything i need to know about you. And gullible is the least of it.

This was the plan - to destroy the NHS. For all its ills I will be voting Labour.

Exactly this!!

@iamturtle the above was to you. Mumsnet functions as badly as the UK.

This is unfair. We only have the money to spend that Rishi and co decide to give us! Can’t work shit miracles.

@LuluBlakey1 i don’t want to pay any more - I already pay a fortune in tax as a high rate earner and cannot access any decent services and have no real private route to go down. DH and I are emigrating and healthcare is one of the key reasons why. Part of the reason the NHS is crumbling like a lot of our infrastructure is that they simply cannot cope with the volume of people they now need to treat.