The NHS is collapsing - what can we do?

[FedUpWithTheNHS]

First of all, I am not interested to do more bashing on GPs, NHS, nurses and whatnot. I sincerely do not think the issue is with them. So let's leave it at that.

But I have been trying to get some support for myself and struggle to get anywhere.
I have family members who have been waiting months, turning into years for severe issues and they are left in pain and scared.
I read threads on here (the one on sepsis, cancer scare etc...) and it's more of the same.

The system is collapsing but there isn't a private sector to pick up the pieces. I had to wait 4 mnths to see a cardiologist privately.... And now another 6 weeks to be able to have the prescription from my GP (At more than £100 per month, I just can't afford to get said prescription privately).
It very much feels like we are left to die, from no healthcare, tbh.

So far, I have written to my MP.
I am supporting groups working against the 'privatisation of the NHS'.
I'd vote Labour but tbh, just now, I can't say theyve filled me with confidence they will actually do what is needed. Which is increasing funding and ensuring doctors and nurses are staying in the UK and the NHS (at the very least)

What else can I, we, do?
I feel like we need to start shouting. LOUD. Very loud. But I am at loss as to what else I can do :((

This would be unfair. As per usual it would end up with middle income earners paying insurance for themselves and subsidising all lower paid/non-working people through their (higher) taxes. Either everyone contributes towards the system or people who choose to go private and unburden the NHS should have reduced taxes. It's unfair to keep lumping all the financial responsibility on middle income workers.

One thing about the NHS that always suprises me, and I have worked in it for 20+ years, as one of the largest employers of women in the world, 75% of the workforce is female, it is still pretty inflexible when it comes to shift patterns and this certainly doesn't help with staff retention.

This.
Along with use the right service, talk to the pharmacist rather than immediately book a gp appointment.

Unfair or not, I see it as a good way to stop the nhs collapsing. In other countries everyone has mandatory health insurance and it works very well. People can easily get an appointment and the treatment is of high quality. With regards to paying £400 excess fee each year for any operation, everyone should have to pay that no matter what they earn so in that way everyone is contributing and also all earners should make NI contributions to fund the health care system

No, they (or their employers in the case of dangerous jobs) should pay more not me who does not do those things.

10 pages in and people are still skirting around the biggest issue. The NHS is too successful at keeping people alive. It keeps curing people and keeping them living longer. It's no longer about health but about prolonging life and whilst this is the focus there will never be enough money for it. Vast amounts are spent on prolonging life for many people who 50 years ago would have died naturally a lot earlier. Death is the most natural thing, yet we try to fight against it, prolonging pain and suffering. This is the main cause of the NHS crumbling and everything else is tinkering around the edges.

As per usual it would end up with middle income earners paying insurance for themselves and subsidising all lower paid/non-working people through their (higher) taxes.

@luvvverly can I ask you to clarify what wage you class as 'lower paid' ?

This ^

100% agree...plus some of the illnesses that we force people to live, pumped full of drugs, to the point they are merley 'existing is just cruel.

@ChrisPNoodles Yes. They have paid in during their working lives, and used the system and subsidised the elderly during that time. If you live abroad you should not expect to be part of a subsidised group in your home country by divine right.

I see your point. In my opinion euthanasia should be made legal in the uk. if people are living in pain or with dementia then euthanasia might be a good option.

@Ilikewinter that sounds like eugenics. People with terminal illnesses/conditions and capacity are not forced to have treatment if they choose not to.

I am also in favour of euthanasia. I think it needs proper discussion.

That was to point out those saying "if it wasn't for the Tories". Doesn't mean Labour will be the saviour of the NHS.

I'm not arguing for a US system, but I think I should point out that this is not exactly right. Our policy has a yearly excess amount which is relatively low and once you reach that, claims are covered 100%. Some visits, if they happen to be at a provider that has contracted directly with the insurance company are covered at 100% even when you haven't reached your excess.

I'm looking at a bill/insurance statement right now for my DC who is at university in the US and broke their ankle - A&E, x-rays, ultrasound to make sure the ligaments are ok, walking boot, crutches - the amount billed to insurance is $1,978.98 (USD). Because it was a hospital contracted directly to the insurance co, they paid a negotiated rate of $546.54, no excess owed by us.

I work in very upper management in the NHS, and it's a mess. Haven't read the full thread so apologies if this has been said. Far too many management employees, I have worked with several teams for years and still really don't know what they do. A lot, lot, lot, of beaurucracy, which holds up so many decisions and fundings, which delays services being administered (even giving a few 1000s to a small 3rd sector organisation takes weeks if not months of paperwork. I am in an integrated team (LA + NHS) and generally the LA team as Well as small vcs organisations keep feeding back that when NHS is involved in decision making meetings, there are months of hold ups. It's crazy.

Firstly they need a decent ICT system
My DH has cancer- the record is 8 letters received on 1 day making and cancelling appointments
He has turned up to find the consultant is on holiday
Been booked simultaneous appointments in hospitals 3 hours apart by public transport
Been booked an appointment for 9am that would have meant leaving at 5 pm by public transport the night before to get there (it is a rural county). He couldn't drive due to operation.

Secondly his treatment has been horrifying
Told would be in for 7 days released after 2 and then back in 4 times. Each time required going to a and e- once he was found alone and collapsed after he texted me to say he was declining. I phoned the ward who after a shift change went to look for him and found him collapsed on the floor in a and e (he had been admitted by ambulance who then left him)

You have to feed and care for your own relative post surgery, There isnt even the basic care in place.

I have seen 2 people die. It's is horrific and I am sure that 1 left me with PTSD.
In 1 case they had still not old hs soon 20 minutes later and I had to walk past him twice knowing that his father was dead.

I was referred in summer 2021 related to a life long and life limiting condition. referral was lost and then there was a 12 month wait- then an 18 month wait. Was told 2 weeks ago it looks like cancer and I need an urgent scan within 2 weeks- it is 11 days today with no contact- so that isnt happening.

Maybe we can be on the same cancer ward (yes my DH is on his with men with dementia who flash everything and run round naked and its a mixed ward). We might manage to feed and wash each other post surgery as the NHS won't be doing that.

his son
not hs soon

To add to my previous msg, I've worked both with patients as well as in management. And yes there is a tremendous amount of waste by local populations too. A&E for sure but also misusing precious beds to claim housing issues, constantly complaining that the govt doesn't do anything but then not using community services when offered/commissioned to prevent admission and then turning up to hosp etc.

@bness - interested in your take as to why someone prefers hospital to say a locally commissioned service. What do they gain from it, do you think?

Not all regions, health boards, hospitals or GP's are the same. Some are fantastic, some are shit. Only ten hospitals out of 240 make up 50% of the long waiters. Bad local management. As a family, we have had some great NHS care recently. The NHS is doing more work now than ever before, it has more staff. The volume is immense and increasing, not helped by effectively being shut-down for 18 months, and staff illness. It's not perfect, and it's not consistent and at times it is infuriating, but the constant narrative or a broken system is just not true.

A few examples, but one of them we see in rates of re admission in mental health beds. People will be safely discharged, but come back a few weeks /months later because either there is stigma in their communities and they don't want to go to local services due to the stigma, and families don't know how to deal with the family member, so send them back to hospital. Also, very often, people in MH beds are sent to supported living accommodation or housing benefit, even if they have their own home. So there is often a misuse of this as its seen as a free home. Not very everyday as daily fail would have you believe, but it's common

Also a few examples where for eg my LA invested millions in setting up MH services built within local community organisations, so people could access support in their own commmunity centers, language, faith based etc, rather than cold and impersonal hospitals etc. Peer and community support, social support etc. The service was heavily coproduced with local organisations to make sure very sensitive and flexible. The uptake was incredibly low, so, so much money wasted, and people would simply not engage, but as a result stay in isolated bubbles and then end up in hospital after relapse. I know MH is a sensitive and complex topic (worked in MH for years, VCS, hospital and management), so not blaming everyone, but as people above have said, there needs to be some responsibility taken for your own health too alongside Torys destroying it for personal gain and other internal NHS issues.

Which 10 hospitals?
My almost 2 year wait to the find out that I probably have cancer is in Yorkshire.

@bness - valuable perspective, thank you for the long post! I don't know how you address these things, but seems like a starting point that community provision is the first line, and hospital is last resort is more sustainable.

I hope the model you talk about doesn't die away.

Do you mean pensioners who have lived, worked and paid tax for an entirely lifetime in the UK and who now choose to live abroad but return to use the NHS?

Logically not all pensioners will have worked & paid tax for an entire lifetime & many that have won't have paid enough. Where does this narrative come from?