The NHS is collapsing - what can we do?

[FedUpWithTheNHS]

First of all, I am not interested to do more bashing on GPs, NHS, nurses and whatnot. I sincerely do not think the issue is with them. So let's leave it at that.

But I have been trying to get some support for myself and struggle to get anywhere.
I have family members who have been waiting months, turning into years for severe issues and they are left in pain and scared.
I read threads on here (the one on sepsis, cancer scare etc...) and it's more of the same.

The system is collapsing but there isn't a private sector to pick up the pieces. I had to wait 4 mnths to see a cardiologist privately.... And now another 6 weeks to be able to have the prescription from my GP (At more than £100 per month, I just can't afford to get said prescription privately).
It very much feels like we are left to die, from no healthcare, tbh.

So far, I have written to my MP.
I am supporting groups working against the 'privatisation of the NHS'.
I'd vote Labour but tbh, just now, I can't say theyve filled me with confidence they will actually do what is needed. Which is increasing funding and ensuring doctors and nurses are staying in the UK and the NHS (at the very least)

What else can I, we, do?
I feel like we need to start shouting. LOUD. Very loud. But I am at loss as to what else I can do :((

Yes i do believe Lab are looking at changes to unearned income taxes and not before time, the general public just cannot afford to pay more taxes.

Particularly pleased on trying to improve public health, maybe try and get us out of our cars and eat a little better?

Most of the labour proposals I fully agree with. Having had 20 months in Copenhagen it becomes obvious why there are such big issues in society- it felt like Denmark was run for the benefit of most of the people and a lot of constant planning - whereas the UK tends to be run like the Wild West and hoping for the best at the least possible cost. I've always tried explaining that although they have 46% tax, they have no council tax, no NI, very reasonable childcare, better pensions and far more good quality social housing- they are also paid around half as much again on average. So the average Danish family comes out with about the same , but more disposable income - and yes some things are more expensive but many things are similar now. We spend as much on food and utilities here now as we did in Denmark

Yes i do believe Lab are looking at changes to unearned income taxes and not before time, the general public just cannot afford to pay more taxes.

What is this?

On the question below I’m hoping for not heading towards a Wales-like poorer and sicker population. Nor do I want greater dependency, I’d say we’re at limits of this. State has not been frugal over last few years - furlough, col payments straight into accounts. I don’t think it’s been small state at all

So, whats the Tory alternative? what do we do on Dentistry, people who need operations and treatment for cancers, leave em too it, as per pre NHS.

If Tory supporters constantly criticise Labour & keep asking questions (without answering any put to them) would also be nice if they could tell us the Tory plans.

Also, don't really understand the fascination with Wales, they aren't a separate country, don't really have the budget for capital improvements, can't control borders, so an awful lot of older English retirees live there and then need looking after.

@Howpo you know all these small state, private everything folks (usually very comfortably off too) the way they told us to piss off elsewhere if we didn't like Brexit- why don't they all pee off to the USA if labour bring in their proposals

100% The people who want the NHS to fail and dance in glee at the thought, have money and PHI.

Its my belief that the Tories do not want a privatised NHS, they want no NHS & a return to pre 1947 healthcare - so the wealthy are ok and everyone else relies on charity and a bare bones emergency service.

Evidenced by what we have now for dentistry & that neither the Tories or their supporters have any plan after 13 years in and just snipe at the side lines at any party that does.

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2023/05/25/how-to-fix-the-nhs

This is worth a look - the actual numbers and how we stack up compared to others. 38p in every pound we spend on public services go to the NHS, but it's not going to the GPs or post-care services, where the logjams lie. On top of that, we are getting older and sicker as a nation - to keep the service going, we will need a shift in how it operates, how we take care of ourselves and pay a bit more.

Well it might happen but who will pick up the bill as they leave?

I don’t get the desire for further decline

On what I’d like I don’t particularly want lower tax but tax is quite high already. People can make a case for higher tax but you’d need to convince people and some are feeling the strain already

Well it might happen but who will pick up the bill as they leave?
they’ve already left or have ensured that they are paying as little taxes as possible anyway….

@Crikeyalmighty

To fund this bring in a health and social care tax of 5%

Who will pay that? Everyone or just workers (as usual)? It may just be enough if it applied to everyone, i.e. on pensions, investment income, capital gains, interest, dividends, property letting, etc. But, as usual, I suspect it'll just be another tax increase on wages!

In comparison to European countries, UK tax burden isn't high at all.

Depends what you want, a bit more tax or 2 day waits for AE and 10m on waiting lists.

But perhaps if the Tories ran the economy better, we'd not be paying extra billions in Govt interest payments, £25bn extra in interest last month alone & their response? we can have a recession!!!

Yay! Absolutely spot on. Couldn't agree with you more.

NHS dentistry is a big thing right now. All sorts of people seem to be talking about it.

People seem to be waking up to what has been taken from them by the Tories , and what else they plan to take.

I agrée that people are waking up to it.
But they are waking up very late, only now that the situation is unsustainable.

And there is no movement to stop the government from doing something that the majority doesn’t want. More of a ‘keep calm and carry on’ attitude that might not be suitable just now iyswim

@Crikeyalmighty yes yes to walk in centres, small injury unit etc…

And social care.

Do you know that right now, they are offering a £1500 package to have relatives bringing people back home and end up caring fir said relative forever and ever.

But we can't afford social care for all these elderly people. And even if we could afford it, no-one wants to be a carer.

We need to think about our young people. We can't have them paying taxes to pay for people who have no quality of life. What is the point?

@IMustDoMoreExercise that's somewhat judgemental- not everyone in a care home situation has zero quality of life- it's a very mixed situation - also where do you draw the line here- as a 61 year old I don't personally go a bundle on paying my taxes towards all kinds of things across all age spectrums - but that's not how taxation works.

Ew. Logan's Run much @IMustDoMoreExercise

@IMustDoMoreExercise - I right with you on that. We have given up on our young people and pay far less for them. We are making a big mistake. Pensioners have had a lifetime to accrue wealth or resources.

Children and young people need schools, properly paid teachers and protection from crime. They need training for jobs. We've been putting our money in the wrong place imo.

The attitudes of some people on this thread are frightening. I wonder if you'll be so keen on ignoring the needs of older people when you get old yourselves. Older people are all individuals who deserve care and respect as much as those who are younger. We're all out there doing charity fun runs (or whatever) to "beat cancer" - or whatever. Health care breakthroughs mean people live longer, but nobody lives forever and people who get old almost always need to lean heavily on health care services- or we could just leave people to suffer, as some of you seem to be advocating. I despair.

Regarding the endless “But there’s no money: where will the money come from?” angst, I’ve just been sent this little game, the obscene wealth simulator.
https://equalitytrust.org.uk/obscene-wealth-simulator
It makes the clear point that we could easily secure the future of the NHS and many other things besides with the resources of just 171 of Britain’s people. One hundred and seventy one, out of a population of 70 million, many millions of which are involved in desperate hand-to-mouth survival in a system weighted against those who work for it.

There is money in Britain still, and there will be plenty of it still after the total dismantling of the NHS. But the distribution is bonkers and those who have it would not piss on their neighbours houses if they were on fire, to use an old phrase, and are invested in keeping the plebs where they own them.

Of course we can afford it, last month we spent an extra £25billion on Govt debt interest alone.. an EXTRA £25bn!!!

Carers earn around £10 per hour and have to provide tax insure and maintain their own car PLUS most people needing care lead relatively independent lives, they just need a little help.

We could change all that in a moment if there was the political will to do so.

Around half the adult care budget is spent on working age adults

So why you say we can't expect the current generation to support the elderly - do you also expect the younger generation to ignore their generation who need support . And disabled children as well ?

Or just old people?

Are you being cold and financially motivated and trapped by capitalism in your thinking or just agist ?

last month we spent an extra £25billion on Govt debt interest alone.. an EXTRA £25bn!!!

Unfortunately this is one of the reasons things are difficult. This interest is high due to sheer spend on helping people. Firstly through furlough and next with direct payments for CoL

Three years of extraordinary financial support. It’s only just abating

It’s unbelievably expensive to pay people not to work and pay people for high energy costs

Hopefully things will start to improve as they finally both recede. Inflation reducing is the biggest part

The NHS was collapsing 10 years ago. It's all too little too late.

People's apathy has allowed the stealth privatisation of the NHS. They only start to care when it affects them and their family and, by then, it's all too late.

You know how bad things are when your NHS consultant tells you to go private and there's no emotion when you tell them you don't have a spare penny to go private...