The NHS is collapsing - what can we do?

[FedUpWithTheNHS]

First of all, I am not interested to do more bashing on GPs, NHS, nurses and whatnot. I sincerely do not think the issue is with them. So let's leave it at that.

But I have been trying to get some support for myself and struggle to get anywhere.
I have family members who have been waiting months, turning into years for severe issues and they are left in pain and scared.
I read threads on here (the one on sepsis, cancer scare etc...) and it's more of the same.

The system is collapsing but there isn't a private sector to pick up the pieces. I had to wait 4 mnths to see a cardiologist privately.... And now another 6 weeks to be able to have the prescription from my GP (At more than £100 per month, I just can't afford to get said prescription privately).
It very much feels like we are left to die, from no healthcare, tbh.

So far, I have written to my MP.
I am supporting groups working against the 'privatisation of the NHS'.
I'd vote Labour but tbh, just now, I can't say theyve filled me with confidence they will actually do what is needed. Which is increasing funding and ensuring doctors and nurses are staying in the UK and the NHS (at the very least)

What else can I, we, do?
I feel like we need to start shouting. LOUD. Very loud. But I am at loss as to what else I can do :((

The single most important thing people could do to save the NHS is to stop voting for the Conservative party.

The Conservative party today is very different to the party with the same name of 20 years ago.

The Conservative party today are not interested in "saving" the NHS because they are ideologically fixated on finding ways to monetise everything.

As the NHS is such a nationally beloved institution, they have found it harder to arrange the privatisation of the NHS than other critical infrastructure such as water, gas and electricity.

Therefore their strategy has been a long-game one, which is to underfund the NHS over a period of a decade, so it starts falling apart... and as it bursts at the seams and starts falling apart, they can then make the claim that "radical change is needed", which is the way they will bring about privatisation.

Privatisation of healthcare will not lead to better outcomes for anybody... except maybe for a certain group in society who will benefit financially and become extremely rich in the process, and those people are very likely to be people who are big donors to the Conservative party, or members of the Conservative party who work / will work in newly privatised healthcare.

If you want to save the NHS, you have to turf out the Conservative party from power, so vote tactically in elections for the party most likely to beat the Conservative candidate. In my area that means vote Liberal Democrat, but I'd be equally happy to vote Labour, or Green, in an area where they were more likely to succeed.

100%

When Tory voters moan about the NHS give them a 😳😳🙄

People don’t really believe that Labour will be able to deliver these lofty promises, do
they??
I work in healthcare. Nurses and Drs cannot be conjured up out of nowhere and they haven’t mentioned bringing back the bursary for nurse training, the removal of which was catastrophic.
And wasn’t it New Labour who snuck privatisation of certain services within healthcare in?
The refrain ‘don’t vote Tory’ is so bloody tedious, do people really think Labour are going to miraculously turn this ship around via that flimsy plan?
It’s going to take a significant overhaul, probably starting with some form of means-based payment at the point of care for GP services or similar, and that’s just for starters. The NHS is laden with (often bullshit, totally unnecessary) ‘managers’, and certain parts of it are padded out with huge numbers of staff that are just not needed. Every day I sit on meetings with managers talking utter wank (because that is exactly what keeps them in a job, by baffling everyone with bullshit as to exactly what it is they do, all the while being totally unable to make decisions effectively) despairing that the general public have no idea how much waste there is within the system before a patient is even seen. In some sectors of healthcare, I am certain that properly managed privatisation where providers are held accountable for public funds would mean huge efficiencies are made through cutting wanky job roles out, just for a start.
And no, I’ve never voted Tory.

Labour have a different approach to the NHS and indeed public services, they believe in them and see them as an important and vital part of civic life.

The Tories do not, Thatcher wanted the NHS gone long ago but was talked out of it, the desire remains the same, for the Cons, the NHS is a socialist concept.

It will be incredibly hard to fix the NHS from where it is now BUT we can all see the evidence of 13 years of Tory rule and what it has done.

There is nothing wrong with using private services (& not for profit) where its shown they can do a better job but we 've gone far beyond that.

We now have a Govt that believes a recession is a key economic policy to fix inflation... so lower tax receipts, less employment, more debt and misery... how is that going to fix the NHS ?

How come other countries have curbed inflation without an engineered recession?

I don’t disagree with what you’re saying here, I just despair that it is nearly too far gone and I can’t see any one political
party being able to fix it. I just don’t think the system is fit for purpose anymore based on an 80 year old ideology, so radical reform is needed, much further than labour is prepared to go.

I’m not seeing where the funds will come from

The policies sound very low on delivering anywhere near what would change things

The age we live to, the complex needs at that age, surgery for hips and knees look at the projections it’s crazy. Obesity and general expansion of care

Not seeing where Labour will fund that differently. Last time we had PFI but we’re still paying billions even now which doesn’t help

I agree with you @Wellnowlookhere .

The one thing I know for certain is that if there is no money in the NHS, there is no spare for turning a profit. The Tories see it differently, as we know. I could weep for what's happened since they came in.

I mean I agree with you @Howpo

It will be extremely hard but whats the alternative?

The economy cannot stand millions of people leaving the workforce because they cannot get healthcare.

Reform is needed but it also cannot be too radical because the need is still there and any changes also have to be able to accommodate existing healthcare need, staffing and the its estate.

Its quite amazing people still come out with "Where is the funding?" yet don't seem to have any problem with the huge increase in Govt borrowing costs with the spike in gilt yields, now as high as when Truss started this all off and which has not been fixed, £25 billion extra in borrowing costs in just one month!

The true cost of Tory economic failure.

What is it about Starmer’s proposals do you like?

I haven’t seen anything that makes me think it’s going to work much, but maybe I’ve missed it

Can you say what you like about his plan?

The NHS is collapsing what can we do?

Vote tactically at the next election for whoever can win the seat that isn't a Tory.

Get your voter ID sorted now.

(Even for postal or proxy voters)

@Wellnowlookhere what do you propose instead?

I mean, Starmer atm doesn’t talk to me. I think he is now like the Conservatives in 2000.

And I agree that it will be hard to get more doctors and nurses (unless we have lots more if them coming from abroad and we entice them to come - im thinking wages etc etc). That’s true for any party and regardless of whether we have the NHS or a fully private system.

So what else can we do? And who will be better place do you think.

I have never voted for the Tories and have no intention of doing so BUT I don't think it's realistic to imagine that Labour can make much of a dent in the NHS issue.

It is a lot of complex issues - higher expectations, aging population, deteriorating health and people enjoying fewer years of healthy life than they used to, the massive burden of obesity and T2 diabetes, a system that is inefficient and not very well designed, and the fact that failures in one place pile the pressure on other places - so, a crisis in social case makes it hard to get older people out of hospital, hospital beds being clogged up results in more people piling in A&E etc.

Labour's ability to magically turn this around is going to be limited and I worry that people have got some seriously unrealistic expectations going on and are going to be crushed when things don't improve much under Labour.

The next government can manage the countries finances properly which will free up money to spend on the NHS.

This may involve:

Managing the country's debt properly so we don't accrue billions in unnecessary interest like Rishi Sunak did while Chancellor.

Going after tax evasion like they go after benefit fraud.

Not giving billions to their mates to produce shoddy useless PPE and store said shoddy useless PPE,

Processing asylum claims promptly thus depriving Serco of billions. (The current government has outstanding claims from 2018 it hasn't got round to yet which is fantastic for Serco's bottom line but not so great for the country's balance sheet. Priorities eh?

You might be right

If it’s just management to make things fine then Wales would be doing well under Labour

Funding per head is higher overall but lower results

If Labour has a great plan after GE I’m up for hearing what pp like about it, what are they planning that’s going to solve the issues

Wales gets less funding than it should because the country is poorer than it should be

Because of the Tories.

(And Brexit)

And I don't think Mark Drakeford is standing to be PM of the United Kingdom.

But it's interesting to see people assume that the next government will be Labour.

Poorer than it should be.

Agree it’s not looking enticing

Labour have been in for 23 years

Not a great advertisement. Labour need to take responsibility for how it’s going

On Labour getting in who knows but I am interested in what people are seeing with policies they like

Specifics of Starmer’s plan that will turn it around, in their view

1: IT, i personally know that our local trust has clinics that have state of the art tech but have to manually print off records to send to patients who then return to the district hospital and vice versa.
Our GP has to write to the local hospital, by post, GP records not accessible, imagine the man hours this eats up, its common through out the country.

2: Improving public health, restricting advertising, taxation on certain food types and on vaping,

3: MH and specifically suicide.

Starmer did also point that more detailed policy will follow, which i'm ok with, 18months out from a GE and the nations finances will be far worse, IF labour win, they will have a huge task ahead.

Now my turn, after 13 years of running the NHS, what has improved and what do you like about their future plans for the NHS ?

Yes and triple yes! The Tories are trying very hard to destroy the NHS. They have to be stopped.

Margaret Thatcher secretly tried to press ahead with a politically toxic plan to dismantle the welfare state even after a “cabinet riot” and her famous declaration that the “NHS is safe with us”, newly released Treasury documents show
The plan commissioned by Thatcher and her chancellor Sir Geoffrey Howe included proposals to charge for state schooling, introduce compulsory private health insurance and a system of private medical facilities that “would, of course, mean the end of the National Health Service”

Remember that the current Tory is far further to the right than Thatchers cabinet.

Ok guys here are my suggestions

1 bring in preventative clinics (non clinical staff can be trained for this ) with every over person over 25 offered an annual full blood test , urine test and poo test. Everyone gets £50 of supermarket /chemist vouchers to attend - GP on hand at clinics for when further investigations needed.

2 bring back NHS dentistry practices properly and fund them - no dentist allowed to offer private practice for first 10 years post qualification.

3 bring back minor injuries units - separate out from A&E

4 sort out the care situation whereby a lot of people end up staying far longer because they can't get any care in the community

1. State control on social care homes , bring standards up and fully funded- no selling houses off etc- people pay a £75 a week contribution

6 bring back walk in centres .

Pay all clinical staff at least 20% more than what they are on. Give great training, free parking, free meals, good pensions- make health something people want to work in!!

To fund this bring in a health and social care tax of 5%

For almost all that, the NHS needs staff, not least in Social Care, so the plan to pay far more will aid retention and encourage some to return.

On tax, i'd bring in taxes on unearned income, which will mean the better off paying it in most cases, people like Sunak who paid tax @22% on earnings of millions.... most people cannot afford an extra 5%.

@Howpo yes- there are many ways I think it could be funded- unearned income is one of them- reducing NI maybe to then factor in a health and social care tax possibly? I don't know the figures involved though , so it's easy for me to say. Certainly if we go down a European style insurance model rather than a US one, families would be looking at £300 approx a month- so I actually think a tax of some kind is fairer .