Why does the UK have 16-17 year olds on adult wards?

[Dodgeitornot]

Just that. I've always been confused by it. As far as I know, most countries in Europe, or even the world, keep patients in pediatrics until they turn 18 or even 21. Why does the UK move them to adult wards so early? Isn't this a safeguarding risk?

Lacks*

@x2boys

ITA! We have had to argue with A & E staff, that DD was under paediatrics, when she was about 17; while they insisted she was under adults. Eventually, after looking at her file, they agreed she was still under paediatrics! I don't know why doctors think parents of complex disabled children have the time or energy to go round making things like this up - as if you don't know which consultant, you have been seeing for the last 10 years to date! I don't know about other parents, but we were in regular telephone contact with DD's consultants, even between appointments to discuss crises, because they recognised how severe she was!

I have heard similar from other parents of children with severe epilepsy, that they have had the unedifying spectacle in A & E, with the paediatric team arguing with the adult team, about whose responsibility DC was!

Transition is just a cliff edge so often! We were lucky, GOSH ran a transition clinic jointly with the National Hospital for Neurology and Neurosurgery, next door. However, CAMHS to adult MH services is another nightmare ime!

Whilst I agree that 16/17 is a funny age, they are NOT adults.
It is far more appropriate for them to be on a paed ward (in a side room if necessary) than on an adult ward all alone.
Having spent far too much time in hospital with my child and also having been in the same hospital on the adults ward myself, there is NO way I’d want my 16 year old, very sick and alone at night unable to advocate for himself in there! They are understaffed to the extreme and it’s be unsafe (particularly for my child who starts fainting when poorly with his condition - I’ve had to carry him back from the bathroom more times than I care to remember and his condition is not going to change just because he turns from 15 to 16!).

PS DREADING having to leave paediatric care 😔

I have to say I agree. I understand both sides of the argument and I really am not a wrap them up in cotton wool type of parent, quite the opposite actually. However, you can't mess with health. 16/17 is still medically speaking a growing human, their health can deteriorate extremely rapidly and they aren't accustomed to advocating for themselves. They're not old enough to know what appropriate medical care looks like and even if they want to advocate for themselves, they don't know the extent they'll have to do that. They don't know the NHS is in shambles and you have to speak up. They'll assume they're in the hospital where they'll be safe. They don't have the experience to judge what's not right in a medical setting, especially when they're sick enough at 16/17 to be inpatient on a ward. Most 16 year olds are still in secondary school where they have to ask to use the toilet and get detentions. Some schools don't even let them go home without a parent if they feel ill.

I really would have no problem with this whole 16-17 year olds being on adult wards idea, if there was a blanket rule as to what that looks like. Some of the descriptions of provisions for this age group on here have been brilliant. I wouldn't have a problem with those.
But there is no blanket rule. It's all up to each hospital and it's not fair. It's not fair that some 16/17 year olds are in private rooms on peads wards and others are watching dementia patients trash a room or die next to them, whilst they're extremely sick and their parents aren't allowed to be with them more than 2 hours.

I'd be ok with this, if there was a rule that they do not go on mixed wards, that as a rule, a parent is able to stay and they too benefit from a legal ratio of patient to nurse, just as other children do in the country. That's not in place at the moment. It is hit and miss as to the care they get. They are NOT adults. In England, there are very very few things a 16/17 year old is able to do, that a 15 year old isn't. Their parents are still very much responsible for them and if they don't get them medical care when they require it, they would be dealt with just as any other parent of a child that's being medically neglected.

At 17 I worked full time, lived on my own and was pregnant. Would have been odd to be put in paediatrics but I do agree it’s a strange age with different lives/maturity levels so some at that age would still very much behave and be treated as a child, so it may be a shock to be out with adults.

Actually despite the law sixth form is not compulsory and you will not be fined for low attendance or holiday. As per the gov website.

They don't need to be in sixth form, but they need to be doing something in education. Our local council is pretty hot on it.

I mean, there's 14 year olds that have the maturity to do all that too. Generally speaking most 16/17 years olds aren't working full time, living alone and pregnant. However I do agree that it's a strange age and can see both sides to the argument. That's why I'm not against them being on adult wards, as long as the rules around it where clear and consistent across the UK.

I remember my poor son at 15 , had hit his adult height of 6'5 and was on a paediatric ward, fortunately a doctor saw sense to move him to a private room.

Are you joking? Your 'poor' son was in a pediatric ward with an excellent nurse to patient ratio and you had an issue with that because he was tall?

Bit uncalled for. I think that pp meant her ds felt out of place and awkward. Teenagers are like that...they don't think oh what a wonderful ratio of doctor to patient I'm experiencing...they just feel mortified at being with tiny kids I'd imagine. I have a tall, broad 15 year old ds, he's probably prefer to be on an adult ward... however he would very much need me to talk with doctors as he wouldn't be mature enough for that. It's a tricky in between age.

I get why the kid would feel awkward and grumble. He'd likely grumble on an adult ward too. Teens complain about anything. However I wouldn't expect to describe my child as poor DD had to go in the children's ward and someone saw sense and out her in a private room :(

You can get married in Scotland at 16.

Yes particularly if you are a child/young person with a chronic or life threatening condition who can deteriorate quickly (as I know all too well sadly).

You have outlined a lot of my worries in this post very well.

I think people popping in here saying ‘oh it’s fine, put a 16/17 year old in the adults ward’ either don’t understand the differences in care levels between adults and paeds, or have never had to repeatedly advocate in a hospital (even ON a paed ward with good staff/patient ratios!) for their child. They’re probably imagining a broken leg scenario of a one night stay or a straightforward one-off tonsil removal surgery not the endless weeks of hell parents like myself go through in hospital with a child with a serious health condition. Where you need to be with them 100% of the time to be their voice, to be their eyes and ears. This is not going to miraculously change for us when my son hits 16 in a few years.

Also those people have probably never spent a week on an adults ward in a nhs hospital in recent years where there is ONE nurse for 30 patients who is run ragged and cannot stop to breathe properly let alone look after her patients. I’ve never felt as unsafe in my life as those few days. I simply could not imagine a 16/17 year old very poorly in that situation.

I know they are not adults ,but my 16 year old was admitted to the adult critical care ward, his care in there was exceptional and I was allowed to stay for first six nights when he was extremely unwell, they moved him to an adult general ward after three weeks and it was more hit and miss ,I know all.16/17 differ in size ect but my son looks like a man physically he's a man not a child although he's obviously sill.only 16 and therefore vulnerable,it's difficult to say wether a children,s ward would have been better.

@x2boys I'm really happy you didn't have an awful experience. I don't think looking like an adult makes you one though. Lots of girls look like adults by age 13 and have reached their adult height.
As I already said, I don't mind the idea, just the execution needs to be better and the same everywhere. They are still kids and need safeguarding and advocating.

Yes I didn't mean looking like an adult makes you an adult ,just if you are the parent of a sick toddler I can see why you might be a bit startled to see a big,hairy man( well.at least some one who.looks like a man) on the same ward as say your two year old .

I genuinely think parents of young kids need to get over that. It's a very selfish view and they will change their mind very quickly once their child is a teen and sick enough to be hospitalised. I don't think a child should be stopped from being on a peads ward just because of how they look or make another parent feel. The toddler won't give hoots. They are closely monitored and more often than not, come with a worried parent attached.

That’s good you had a good experience. You’re always going to get a higher quality of care in critical care (adult or paed) due to the ratios in there. Impressed they let you stay overnight. Gives me a glimmer of hope. That’s my biggest fear having to leave him very poorly and unable to speak up for himself. Terrifying.

I'm fortunate not to have spent too many nights on a kids ward.
But as a mum I found it uncomfortable that it was a Dad who was sleeping opposite me, not that you get much sleep.
But I think many 16/17 year olds would also feel uncomfortable at sleeping in what is essentially a mix sex space. Mums / Dads / Girls / Boys.

Adult wards should be single sex at least.

I've had the opposite experience as two of my kids have been hospitalised at seventeen and both were on paediatric wards

To be brutally honest here, who is also on the ward when I’m in with my child is one of my least concerns. Feeling slightly uncomfortable at having a dad I don’t know caring for his child opposite me is the least of my worries.

My main focus when we’re in on the paed wards is the care my child receives. I’ve slept in bays of 4 beds many times with other parents of opposite gender and we are all singularly focused on getting our children better and advocating for them. Truly you generally don’t give a shit who sees you in your pjs when you’re in a life/death situation.

Yes I was impressed I think.it was because he is only 16 when he was very poorly they let me come and go.pretty much as I liked although I didn't want to.leave him.at all,and the staff were lovely with him they really bent over backwards .