Why does the UK have 16-17 year olds on adult wards?

[Dodgeitornot]

Just that. I've always been confused by it. As far as I know, most countries in Europe, or even the world, keep patients in pediatrics until they turn 18 or even 21. Why does the UK move them to adult wards so early? Isn't this a safeguarding risk?

Yes, it's been surprisingly hard to find information about this. Out of interest, where in the world is this?

I think generally everyone seems to be in agreement regarding this. Obviously it's not possible to do and I imagine when a nurse is looking after 17 patients, having them in all different rooms will make the impossible, truly impossible.

Society has changed, we have taken away many rights from 16/17 year olds and as PP have mentioned, their parents would be fined if they're not in school. We have definitely infantilised them, and kids in general.

The key thing here, @Dodgeitornot , is that even if the law has changed, it doesn’t mean that parents have to infantilise their children. There is no law against you raising a 16 year old who is able to cope in such situations.

@Dodgeitornot the brain is still developing at 25 and can't make rational decisions

I’m 26 and pregnant. Does that make me a teen mum? My parents were younger than me when they had me! They had children and a house in their early 20s, but they were obviously still children, right?😒

Many people aren't allowed to stay the night with their 16 year olds who are on adults wards, they're at the mercy of the head nurse

I was in hospital and on an adult ward for a week as a 16 year old (10 years ago). My parents visited every day but didn’t stay over night.

Does this differ in different parts of Italy? The information I found about northern Italy seems to also say pediatrics until 18.
I'm sorry you're hurt by my comments, I really don't mean to come across as ageist and I certainly am not. I think the way the elderly are treated in hospitals is disgusting, they also deserve better care and dignity. I am simply commenting on the situation in the UK. There is a crisis of epic proportions in UK social care.

Oh, I don't agree that 25 year olds brains are still developing therefore they can't make rational decisions. I was referring to a poster who mentioned the new Scottish sentencing law. That law is the reason why the 20 something year old guy got away with raping a 13 year old. It is being appealed but it doesn't change the fact it's allowed.
In terms of staying overnight, did your parents want to but were not allowed? Or you were fine to stay alone?
Don't get me wrong, I don't think 16 year olds are so useless they can't possibly stay the night alone in hospital, but there does seem to be big discrepancies by area in terms of opinion on this, and how it's handled. I think if you're 16/17, sure go on an adult ward but it should be single sex and your parent should be allowed to stay if they want to.

I agree. And I promise you I am far from a coddling parent. However, staying alone in hospital at 16/17 when really ill is scary. It's scary as an adult. I don't think a 16 year old wanting a parent with them in a situation like that is a failure.

Anyway, I just wanted to understand why this happens in the UK as opposed to other countries. What's transpired from this thread is how different the approach is by area, how the mixed wards policy plays a part as well as the social care crisis.
All in all, it's not a simple answer.

I didn’t like staying on an adult ward and didn’t like saying goodbye to my parents, but I had to suck it up. I have a much younger brother. I was closer to being an adult than a child. You don’t suddenly go from being a child at 17 to a fully fledged adult at 18, but the cut off point has be somewhere. You’ve got to gain independence or else you’ll end up like one of those university students who has moved away and can’t do anything for themselves!

I agree, I really do. I just don't think it's fair to dump them onto a mixed adult ward and told tell them to crack on when they're at their most vulnerable.

Most UK wards are not mixed, OP. They have separate 4 or 6 bedded bays, divided by sex. The only obvious exceptions are places like HDU or ITU. Wards also have individual side rooms, for single occupancy, and if not needed for barrier nursing or terminal care a young teenage patient on a mainly elderly ward would probably be put in there.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/childrens_health/4806230-daughter-possible-sepsis

Read this and tell me that the poor DD would cope on a adult ward, she is barely getting the treatment she requires on a children's ward and that is with her mum fighting for her. Her DD is too ill to be able to advocate for herself. She is year 11, luckily a summer born as most y11s are 16.

My local hospital is single sex wards (excellent) but 16 is an adult and the opposite sex parent is not allowed to stay overnight or after visiting.

I´m Spain, until 2013 pediatric age was 14 years old. Then it was upped to 18 years old as most European states, but doctors were against this. What happens now is that minors with everyday ailments are seen by a pediatrician until 14 then transferred to an adult doctor. Minors with chronic deseases or acute ailments are seen by a pediatrician both at the health centre and at hospital until 18 years of age. I think the UK is just stuck in the old practice.

This was actually the reason I started this thread. I immediately thought, how lucky she's not 16 yet.

I can definitely see both sides to the story. The UK is stuck in the old practise because there's no money for anything else. They're not stuck in the old practise when it comes to laws. They've essentially made 16-17 year olds children by all accounts of the law. They're now infantilising adult criminals. This isn't translated into all parts of society though because there's no money.

Yh I thought this was the case but I think it probably depends on area. Some medics that are on here have said most bays are now mixed. I can assume it largely depends on quality of social care in the area that'll determine the flow of a hospital, as well as the new trans movement.

I'm lucky enough to have never needed more than outpatient visits to hospital, but the idea of being on ANY sort of ward makes my skin crawl (and I happily sleep in hostels).

Must be hideously non-conducive to recovery.

(nope, I obviously don't have an answer to this)

Oh i agree! Not sure my bravery stretches to those mixed gender 8 bed hostel rooms but I suspect I'd prefer that to a mixed ward.
I am quite aware that my traumatic experience on said mixed ward as a 17 year old probably clouds my judgement somewhat, so it has been really interesting to hear all sides of the coin. It's an interesting topic and ultimately comes down to money, not best practise. Like most things in the NHS.

My son was on an adult male surgical ward for four days at the age of 17. He made good friends with the lovely elderly men in the four bed bay that he was in, they chatted a lot about football.

The only slight negative was on admittance and the letter he received said that he had to go alone. That was a bit daunting for him as he was already very nervous about the prospect of having surgery and at only just 17 it was his first hospital stay. The ward manager was sympathetic to this though and allowed one male to go with him, so his Dad went. It was good that he was allowed someone with him because he’d have been nervously waiting alone from arrival at 7am until he eventually went to theatre later than planned at 4pm.

Visiting wasn’t as flexible as on paediatrics either, this was pre-pandemic but was just 6pm-8pm. It didn’t seem to bother him though as he had his aforementioned friends in the other beds to keep him company.

So how did the pp say they had several 16 year olds at medical school with them?

My 16 year old recently spent 3 weeks on an adult critical care,ward and a further week on a male general ward,physically he's a man with a full.beard and hairy chest etc,I can't imagine parents of toddlers being impressed if he was in a paediatric ward ,he's still emotionally a 16 year old though so for he first six nights I was allowed to stay with him ( when he was extremely unwell) and he mainly had his own room and I was allowed to bring up food,ect for him I guess ideally they would have adolescent unit,s for olderteens,but I'm not sure how practical that would be .

I'd gave no problem with this. This isn't the norm though. Beds are scarce and rarely is a room available. Very often 16/17 year olds are on mixed wards in the open bays and pare TS aren't allowed to stay the night. I feel.what your son experienced is ideal.

I have to say my year 11 ,16 year old received exceptional care on the adult critical care ward he was on the staff were excellent anyway but in views of his age bent over backwards for him
when he moved to an adult general ward,it was more hit and miss ,but thankfully he was recovering well by then.

They may not be at their full height, but biologically they are adults in every way. It would seem odd to have them on a pediatric ward. What are all these 'European countries' which do so?

The poster was talking nonsense, 17yos yes if they'd left school after Highers in 5th year rather than staying on for 6th.

Circa 30 years ago Aberdeen University would accept 17yos on to the Medicine Degree but Glasgow University wouldn't. I don't know if things have changed or what other Unis say.

Yh Im definitely talking about general wards here. The acute wards tend to have better ratios and less exhausted nurses. I do think going to an adult ward at 16 is also easier on boys.